Setting quads for Fat2 blades

[bloomp]

Working with some C2 fat2 sculls at the moment and trying to optimize the rig of some quads.

Currently for the women using the oars/boat we are at 280/87 total length and inboard with 158 as the span on the quad. This results in a load ratio of 1.255

The men are at 281/87 with a span of 160.

I know these numbers cannot be correct, I just have no experience setting team sculling boats to row with the Fat2. The absolutely baffling part is that the blades will not go below 279.5 for total length.

The equipment is largely used by the top boys and girls varsity quads, and a masters quad that is comparable to the top girls quad with respect to speed. I think they are doing themselves a disservice both not rowing tight enough on the span and short enough on the oar.

Any thoughts on what adjustment to make? I do have access to a vice grip, hacksaw and drill if that's what needs to be done to make the Fat2s rowable. But it appears someone went and bought the wrong length many years back.

[petermech]

I think the smoothie2 and the fat2 have the same blade shape but the Fat2 has some extra at the bottom. You could check with Concept2 to confirm that. If so you could make the Fat2 into smoothie2s by removing some of the bottom of the blade.

[AND]

I think the smoothie2 and the fat2 have the same blade shape but the Fat2 has some extra at the bottom. You could check with Concept2 to confirm that. If so you could make the Fat2 into smoothie2s by removing some of the bottom of the blade.

I had been thinking about this same problem, as I picked up a cheap used set of oars, which ended up being Fat2 with a minimum length of 283. So way too large.

After seeing this post I figured I would give it a shot.
I traced the outline of a Smoothie2 onto the blade, and made a cut with a jig saw. Make sure to cut outside the line, so you can sand it down to match the curve, and do the cut on the back of oar, the curve is better than cutting inside face. It cut really well with a general metal blade, and sanded nicely to match the smoothie2 profile.

So, now I have smoothie2 at 283 length. And now I see every oversized fat2 sweep oar we have as a future Smoothie2.

[westcoastfit]

I have some similar questions relating to high school boys varsity quads. Avg 2k erg is 6:30-6:45, most are between 5'10 and 6'2 and around 170-190lbs.

The sculling oars we have in house are Smoothie 2 Vortexs, and are set at 288 total length.

From what I can find online, your assertions in this thread are by far the shortest oar lengths that I have seen.

Most posts are saying 285-289cm for total length of the oars. Perhaps our crews are different enough in speed, or the fat 2s are different enough from the Smoothie 2s?


Any additional insight on your numbers would help.

Thanks!

[bloomp]

I have some similar questions relating to high school boys varsity quads. Avg 2k erg is 6:30-6:45, most are between 5'10 and 6'2 and around 170-190lbs.

The sculling oars we have in house are Smoothie 2 Vortexs, and are set at 288 total length.

From what I can find online, your assertions in this thread are by far the shortest oar lengths that I have seen.

Most posts are saying 285-289cm for total length of the oars. Perhaps our crews are different enough in speed, or the fat 2s are different enough from the Smoothie 2s?


Any additional insight on your numbers would help.

Thanks!

The loading profile and blade surface area of a Fat2 is very different from the Smoothie2. I have heard on the sweep side of things people getting the inboard down to 113 and total length close to 360.

So yes, your Smoothie2 blades will be rigged much longer than the Fat2.

[KiwiCanuck]

Hi...
From your description, it sounds like these are primarily used by juniors or high-schoolers (using the terms girls and boys - basis of my assumption).

You COULD try - shortening the sculls as short as they will go - e.g., 297.5.. Er... that should be 279.5... thanks for catching that Long'n Strong...
Move the span out to (say) 159 from 158.
Leave the inboards - this will give less cross-over, allow the foot stretchers to be moved more sternward, and provide a longer catch "angle" of the blades by virtue of the scullers being able to go farther aft.

The shorter outboards should compensate somewhat for the increased load at the start due to the longer catch angle
The longer catch angle (assuming that the crews aren't missing water) will provide better propulsion early in the drive.

Oh... and this isn't "conventional" rigging.

If I had my 'druthers, I'd avoid blades that have the corners chopped off - Crokers and Smoothie2 have the tips, which (according to Sliasas' modeling) provide better propulsion.

[Long'n Strong]

^

Sculling oars, shortened to 297.5???!

[KiwiCanuck]

Oops. Number dyslexia... will edit

[Stewie Griffin Should Cox]

^

Sculling oars, shortened to 297.5???!

Ahhhh, reminds me of Karpinnen rowing on 302's

[Nosmo]

...
Most posts are saying 285-289cm for total length of the oars. Perhaps our crews are different enough in speed, or the fat 2s are different enough from the Smoothie 2s?

Any additional insight on your numbers would help.

Thanks!

C2 says standard (medium ) lengths are 278-283 for the Fat 2's, and 284-289 for the Smoothie2 & Big Blades. (http://www.concept2.com/oars/oar-options/length)
So you can set them to 279.5/87 and have fairly conventional rigging. Might not be perfect but you will be pretty close.

If you want to go shorter, I"m pretty sure you can shorten the oar length by cutting the shafts and re-gluing in the end plug that the handle screws into. I don't see any instructions on the C2 web site so call and ask. There are special Hacksaw blades for cutting carbon fiber so you might want to pick one up, or you can go to a bike shop which should have one for cutting steering columns and have them do it.

This may be hair brain, and not sure if you can do it, but you might also be able to cut the blades to make the new Bantam/Compact shape. The standard length for those are 281-286.

[boston_1x]

Speaking with 10yrs of Fat2 experience, if you feel a big difference in load between Fats and Smoothies, you're not rigging them correctly. Spread and inboard should not be any different. Re outboard, for 6:20-6:30 ergs (which I am) in a 1x I gear at 288:88:160 for Smoothies and 281:88:160 for Fats. I add 1cm to the outboard for a 2x and 2cm for a 4x. Nuff said.

I do think the Fats allow you to take much better advantage of the front end, as you push from 60-65-70dg. But as the angle goes up, you need to adjust the outboard +/-1cm (ie 282 at 60dg, 280 at 70dg)... because the load increases exponentially, and try to be more sensitive re power application, feeling the suspension & push of the feet against the larger blade face. That's the whole point of the design.

The only downside I've seen with Fats is you need clean bladework on the recovery, or you create a bit more wind resistance and get a bit more water in the face.

[catch_&_feather]

So what you gotta do here is
1. Take your Fat2 blades out of the boathouse
2. Douse them in gasoline
3. Light match/lighter/flint&steel
4. Throw the flame implement at said Fat2 blades
5. Toss flaming oars in river and watch your problems float away...

[bloomp]

So what you gotta do here is
1. Take your Fat2 blades out of the boathouse
2. Douse them in gasoline
3. Light match/lighter/flint&steel
4. Throw the flame implement at said Fat2 blades
5. Toss flaming oars in river and watch your problems float away...

Hot take.

Remember, it’s the craftsmen not the tools. You can rig a Fat2 to do just what you want.