Medalist hull

[AaronDoucett]

It looks like WinTech might be phasing out the production of it's medalist line of shells, possibly due to the reemergence of the King as their top-end product. Their website used to have all the details on the Medalist class but now it seems they say

"Please call 203-866-7223 if you would like to order your shell with our high modulus, unidirectional carbon construction (Medalist model)"

Either it wasn't too popular with the people who are willing to pay the premium for high performance (many might go with another boat maker at that level), wasn't cost effective to produce regularly (and therefore is by order-only now), they just don't feel like advertising it as part of their regular lineup, or maybe something new is coming, possibly in the King line)

Any thoughts?

[lt.wolf]

The feature eight will be the King , 4+ coming soon. More to come.

The market preferred the International model best of all. You can order the medalist hull if you wish.

[caustic]

So, Wintech, which was Starline, and before that was Wudi, is now phasing out the Wintech brand and calling them Kings?

I don't want to say I told you so, but well, I told you so.

[ltwtsculler91]

The feature eight will be the King , 4+ coming soon. More to come.

The market preferred the International model best of all. You can order the medalist hull if you wish.

so your saying we'll be seeing King singles, doubles, and quads soon?

[gdoyle]

So, Wintech, which was Starline, and before that was Wudi, is now phasing out the Wintech brand and calling them Kings?

I don't want to say I told you so, but well, I told you so.

Anybody mind if I phone this one in?

{recycled content from 2010}

"Ahhh....I think I figured out your hate for Wintech/King. In all their incarnations, they are yet another player who has grabbed (and likely will grab again) the tossed bouquet of marketplace affection, thus preventing your "beloved" from getting a turn."

[caustic]

Except that I can't think of any other boatbuilder who was known for quality who changed their name more often than most folks get new bicycles.

Hey, whatever. I told you back then that I wouldn't be surprised if Wintech changed their name again, and it looks like I'm right - again. Who was it who said that they were going to keep the two brands separate? Do you still believe that is true?

[gdoyle]

Still two names for now, overcaffeinated & overburgered one. Might want to hold on to that "Mission Accomplished" banner. It's cursed, I hear.

http://www.wintechracing.com

They are still selling International, Competitor, and Club Racer models as WinTech.

Seems only the high end has moved on. They co-opted their own upper market, and the lower models could undermine the new King branding. For now, best to keep them separate, which would make perfect marketing SENSE. Ever drive a Lincoln Escort? A Cadillac Sonic? No....because that doesn't make sense for the target market. And souped up Ford or Chevy tin cans have limited appeal as well. It doesn't make much sense to have a lower model that eclipses the bottom end of your upper models.

SENSE....you know, that instinct that allows people who actually make/coach/win things succeed? Ahhhh....it's the last part that escapes you again.

You had to stay in the classroom during recess alot, didn't you?

[rowonaut]

GDoyle- you may be right. But then maybe there is more to the statement that folks prefered the mid level priced boat better. Perhaps most folks just think that WinTechs are a decent "price" boat and are not willing to step up to a higher price point under the WinTech brand. My memory is bad but the medalist eight was still cheaper then the King eight by reasonable amount. But why pay more for a medalist vs an int'l for the same hull design, same approx weight, same riggers, same peices and parts? My bet is it made financial sense to eliminate the medalist since it was not that popular.

[gdoyle]

GDoyle- you may be right. But then maybe there is more to the statement that folks prefered the mid level priced boat better. Perhaps most folks just think that WinTechs are a decent "price" boat and are not willing to step up to a higher price point under the WinTech brand. My memory is bad but the medalist eight was still cheaper then the King eight by reasonable amount. But why pay more for a medalist vs an int'l for the same hull design, same approx weight, same riggers, same peices and parts? My bet is it made financial sense to eliminate the medalist since it was not that popular.

Not at all uncommon to see the customer price tiers don't match the value differences in the products. As you say, if the Medalist was not fundamentally different (in the field) from the International, then how do you sell it?

Too many products with shadows of differentiation....sooner or later, something gets cut from the list. Smart decision on WinTech's part. And we get the added benefit of witnessing caustic's frothy anger and frustration.

[caustic]

What, exactly, would I be angry or frustrated about? I don't buy Wintech or King, or really any boat - can't afford one. So it's not like I'm a market demographic. I'm just a guy looking in from the outside on this, and seeing trends I've observed directly in other industries. If you think that somehow boatmakers are going to do business in a different way fundamentally than other industries, I hate to break your bubble. You just go ahead and keep believing that.

Sure, I'm fan of Pocock, but I have never bought anything from them - well, I DID buy a pair of grips for my Crokers. So I guess that $10 purchase has forever colored me as "biased". Oh, and the folks there are pretty cool, but I'm sure the folks at Wintech are cool folks too.

Wudi became Starline, which became "Wonder World of Rowing", which became Wintech. I actually laid out pretty clearly the history in those previous posts, and showed the common denominators - the rather largely relevant observation being the fact that they were all produced by the same people in China.

And sure, the other products are still marketed as Wintech - for now. All Wintech is doing is taking a rather standard business practice in other industries and applying it to rowing. I.E. if you have a brand that is no longer popular, you just apply a new brand. Example: Eagle Talon, which was also the Misubishi Eclipse. Same car, but for some reason more people bought it when it was called the Eclipse than the Talon. Made in the same factory, sold under two different company names. You don't make the change overnight, because it really throws the customer base for too big of a loop. Customers can be sold on a transition, but not so easily sold on a sudden close-the-doors here, cross the street and reopen strategy. The fact that nothing will change can be easily played down.

[lt.wolf]

I am a very cool person. ( fast and good looking too) Thank you caustic.

[gdoyle]

Caustic, are you an intellectual hermaphrodite? Because it's really comical watching you mentally hump yourself. Just want to know if it's equipment and not effort.

You still won't come back to your infamous "they" name conspiracy that you have never proven, as if Flying Eagle management was the puppet master in all this. To the sane, it looks like a company continuing to grow and expand, finding the right niche in the market. At no time has any distributor hidden the origin of the shells.

And you might want to brush up on your Chrysler/AMC/Eagle/Mitsubishi theories. It's a little more complex than your seven brain cells can manage.

Say...If we all ponied up the dough, would you embark on of those solo ocean rowing adventures? Every time you return, just let us know and we'll fund it again. Maybe we could put a credit card down to refresh the account and save the paperwork. Could have benefits for all parties....and you might actually learn something if you can refrain from talking to yourself.

[caustic]

Caustic, are you an intellectual hermaphrodite? Because it's really comical watching you mentally hump yourself. Just want to know if it's equipment and not effort.

This statement is thoroughly confusing to me. But visually I find it amusing.

You still won't come back to your infamous "they" name conspiracy that you have never proven, as if Flying Eagle management was the puppet master in all this. To the sane, it looks like a company continuing to grow and expand, finding the right niche in the market. At no time has any distributor hidden the origin of the shells.

"They" would be the common denominators - the owners of the factory, and the people who were there along the shepherding process. While the name has changed, the owners of Wudi/Starline/WWoR/Wintech/King have not.

Normal companies, when they grow and expand, keep their names, or slightly modify them. Kentucky Fried Chicken became KFC. Internal Business Machines became IBM. They usually don't start taking over the names of smaller companies that they purchased and that were known for higher quality. When Best Buy bought Magnolia Hi-Fi (a premium brand), BB didn't change their name to Magnolia. when Microsoft bought (insert favorite small tech company here), they didn't drop their name and adopt (favorite tech company name here). And they certainly don't do it with a regular pattern.

And you might want to brush up on your Chrysler/AMC/Eagle/Mitsubishi theories. It's a little more complex than your seven brain cells can manage.

Where did I call it a conspiracy? I used it as a business case example, and one that's pretty similar. I never said anything about it being a conspiracy, but instead a decision based on what the market dictated, and them taking advantage of that. Similar to Wintech taking advantage of a market indicator - people like Kings, Wintech buys King. Why not just rename Wintech to King, and VOILA! They are now a respected boat brand with a historic cache, and have successfully hitched onto the coattails of quality that King established a decade ago when he was building boats completely unrelated to what they produce, before he went out of business the first time.

Say...If we all ponied up the dough, would you embark on of those solo ocean rowing adventures? Every time you return, just let us know and we'll fund it again. Maybe we could put a credit card down to refresh the account and save the paperwork. Could have benefits for all parties....and you might actually learn something if you can refrain from talking to yourself.

At the very least I'd probably stop being overweight. But it's SOOOO much more fun talking here!


But, if folks are intent on pooling cash to support a cross-Atlantic venture, i'd suggest you donate it to the OarNW guys instead of me. They'll actually be rowing across the Atlantic, and they are supporting a good cause.

[gdoyle]

You still won't come back to your infamous "they" name conspiracy that you have never proven, as if Flying Eagle management was the puppet master in all this. To the sane, it looks like a company continuing to grow and expand, finding the right niche in the market. At no time has any distributor hidden the origin of the shells.

"They" would be the common denominators - the owners of the factory, and the people who were there along the shepherding process. While the name has changed, the owners of Wudi/Starline/WWoR/Wintech/King have not.

That's because "they" are manufacturers. They have had many distribution partners in the 27 years they have been making boats. Congratulations on knowing a few. BTW....their world medal tally in that timeframe is higher than somebody else's we know.

Normal companies, when they grow and expand, keep their names, or slightly modify them.

Really?
Datsun-->Nissan
Jerry's Guide-->Yahoo
KPMG Consulting-->Bearing Point
Philip Morris-->Altria
Andersen Consulting-->Accenture
Bell Atlantic-->Verizon

oohh....here's one:

Pacific Aero Products Co.-->Boeing

How about a rowing one? Schoenbrod-->Dirigo.....and before you go snide on them, take care to note the Dartmouth/Harvard finish line photo I posted under another thread. Of course, I am sure it was all just a conspiracy to hide the fact the shells were made in America.

And you might want to brush up on your Chrysler/AMC/Eagle/Mitsubishi theories. It's a little more complex than your seven brain cells can manage.

Where did I call it a conspiracy?

Where did I say you did? The poo puzzle that is you is starting to come together....always start with the edges.

I used it as a business case example, and one that's pretty similar.

Not even close. Not even in blood-related-parents-caustic-land.

I never said anything about it being a conspiracy, but instead a decision based on what the market dictated, and them taking advantage of that.

You sly dog. Always out-strategizing that dopey Lee Iacocca.

Similar to Wintech taking advantage of a market indicator - people like Kings, Wintech buys King. Why not just rename Wintech to King, and VOILA! They are now a respected boat brand with a historic cache, and have successfully hitched onto the coattails of quality that King established a decade ago when he was building boats completely unrelated to what they produce, before he went out of business the first time.

We've seen your grasp of history and reality on that subject in previous posts. North Korea is looking for an archivist. You fit the bill. I bet magical pandas are right up your alley.

Say...If we all ponied up the dough, would you embark on of those solo ocean rowing adventures? Every time you return, just let us know and we'll fund it again. Maybe we could put a credit card down to refresh the account and save the paperwork. Could have benefits for all parties....and you might actually learn something if you can refrain from talking to yourself.

But, if folks are intent on pooling cash to support a cross-Atlantic venture, i'd suggest you donate it to the OarNW guys instead of me. They'll actually be rowing across the Atlantic, and they are supporting a good cause.

I think you're missing the point of this project, sport.

[AaronDoucett]

hmm... I feel like whenever I start a discussion it turns into a full on bloody war every time, but I find that pretty entertaining nonetheless

The King looks like a nice shell, with plenty of attention to the details. I think WinTech overall has produced some innovative designs (quick-release, adjustable seats, footplate, etc) and is actually fairly customer oriented, having a useful website that's up to date, with an array of spare parts I can pick up whenever I need them. Good luck getting that from Empacher in Canada just as easily... In any case, they have come a long way from the Flying Eagles or whatnot of the past. What it comes down to in some ways, is that some of these boat builders have been in the trade for almost a hundred years, while with WinTech you've got a company that isn't too well established yet. Their reputation is still building, and unlike say Fluid or Hudson, they've got a specific range of shells for the budget/rec/club/adaptive market , and they are affordable. Especially used!

I guess we'll see how they do finish-wise in the Spring. Is there any other quality more important than that?

Plus if Wolf is in one, that makes them cool.