To the question asked initially -- Hudson and traditional Van Dusen, I'm probably the right person. After rowing a traditional VD for about 20 years, with a few short-lived indiscretions with other hulls, I kind of impulsively moved to a new Hudson this year. My conclusions are that people spend too much time talking about "differences" between boats. I think tippiness is a function of how well the boat fits a rower -- too light and it will tip side to side; too heavy and it's just a steady, heavy bathtub. That being said, there's nothing more difficult to row in a crosswind than a traditional VD. In terms of ergonomics, the Hudson wins hands down. More adjustments, wider feet, better footstretcher. Not even close. And the Hudson is a lot better for long steady-state miles. But who cares about that stuff if one boat really is inherently faster than another. On that, here's what I've discovered: when I row it well, the Hudson is scorching fast and when I row it poorly it feels like everything else. And the VD is the exact same. It's how you row, not what you row.
First time on a Hudson single. Question
Moderator: lt.wolf
Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
It's tough to find a thread here that doesn't detour into the durability of a Fluid
To the question asked initially -- Hudson and traditional Van Dusen, I'm probably the right person. After rowing a traditional VD for about 20 years, with a few short-lived indiscretions with other hulls, I kind of impulsively moved to a new Hudson this year. My conclusions are that people spend too much time talking about "differences" between boats. I think tippiness is a function of how well the boat fits a rower -- too light and it will tip side to side; too heavy and it's just a steady, heavy bathtub. That being said, there's nothing more difficult to row in a crosswind than a traditional VD. In terms of ergonomics, the Hudson wins hands down. More adjustments, wider feet, better footstretcher. Not even close. And the Hudson is a lot better for long steady-state miles. But who cares about that stuff if one boat really is inherently faster than another. On that, here's what I've discovered: when I row it well, the Hudson is scorching fast and when I row it poorly it feels like everything else. And the VD is the exact same. It's how you row, not what you row.
To the question asked initially -- Hudson and traditional Van Dusen, I'm probably the right person. After rowing a traditional VD for about 20 years, with a few short-lived indiscretions with other hulls, I kind of impulsively moved to a new Hudson this year. My conclusions are that people spend too much time talking about "differences" between boats. I think tippiness is a function of how well the boat fits a rower -- too light and it will tip side to side; too heavy and it's just a steady, heavy bathtub. That being said, there's nothing more difficult to row in a crosswind than a traditional VD. In terms of ergonomics, the Hudson wins hands down. More adjustments, wider feet, better footstretcher. Not even close. And the Hudson is a lot better for long steady-state miles. But who cares about that stuff if one boat really is inherently faster than another. On that, here's what I've discovered: when I row it well, the Hudson is scorching fast and when I row it poorly it feels like everything else. And the VD is the exact same. It's how you row, not what you row.
Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
But a traditional VD is not the same as a VD Advantage. In terms of ergonomics the Advantage is much much better then the traditional, and easier to row. Probably not as easy as a Hudson, but they are not the same at all.rowfaster wrote:It's tough to find a thread here that doesn't detour into the durability of a Fluid![]()
To the question asked initially -- Hudson and traditional Van Dusen, I'm probably the right person. After rowing a traditional VD for about 20 years, with a few short-lived indiscretions with other hulls, I kind of impulsively moved to a new Hudson this year. My conclusions are that people spend too much time talking about "differences" between boats. I think tippiness is a function of how well the boat fits a rower -- too light and it will tip side to side; too heavy and it's just a steady, heavy bathtub. That being said, there's nothing more difficult to row in a crosswind than a traditional VD. In terms of ergonomics, the Hudson wins hands down. More adjustments, wider feet, better footstretcher. Not even close. And the Hudson is a lot better for long steady-state miles. But who cares about that stuff if one boat really is inherently faster than another. On that, here's what I've discovered: when I row it well, the Hudson is scorching fast and when I row it poorly it feels like everything else. And the VD is the exact same. It's how you row, not what you row.
As for the Fluid, seems like it is less prone to damage from small impacts but perhaps more prone to more damage from larger ones. Does that make sense?
Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
My background:
late 1980's & 90's = Kaschper
2005-9 = Hudson
2009-11 = Fluid
(sculling also in Van Dusen and Peinert & others in a Boat House coaching environment all the while...
I confirm what has been said about the sculler making more difference than the boat. In the end... Be comfortable... Be in a configuration that fits your body.... Small beneficial differences are idiosyncratic tot he rower (they don't necessarily apply to each and every one of us)...
For me: As a tall(er) lightweight, I prefer the Fluid to the Hudson... but most of you aren't (most probably) a taller lightweight..
and learning a truly cleaner release was more important in the last three years...
News Flash:
Did you know the the reverse wing Empacher has corresponding adjustment holes drilled for the wing and the foot stretcher? Are you willing to pay in excess of $12,500 for such a smart design feature?
Let the (boat builder) games continue....
late 1980's & 90's = Kaschper
2005-9 = Hudson
2009-11 = Fluid
(sculling also in Van Dusen and Peinert & others in a Boat House coaching environment all the while...
I confirm what has been said about the sculler making more difference than the boat. In the end... Be comfortable... Be in a configuration that fits your body.... Small beneficial differences are idiosyncratic tot he rower (they don't necessarily apply to each and every one of us)...
For me: As a tall(er) lightweight, I prefer the Fluid to the Hudson... but most of you aren't (most probably) a taller lightweight..
and learning a truly cleaner release was more important in the last three years...
News Flash:
Did you know the the reverse wing Empacher has corresponding adjustment holes drilled for the wing and the foot stretcher? Are you willing to pay in excess of $12,500 for such a smart design feature?
Let the (boat builder) games continue....
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Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
We have a fluid double at our club (I'm also in Pittsburgh) and it already looks about 10 yrs old even though it's only a couple years old. However, people who privately own & care for their fluids seem to last very well. I think fluids are not a good club boat because they seem to not take the wear/tear of making adjustments all the time. I'm not sure if this is because they don't have a core (foam board/honeycomb), or for some other reason. Just my two cents.
"It's the ONLY thing,' said the Water Rat solemnly, as he leant forward for his stroke. `Believe me, my young friend, there is NOTHING -absolute nothing- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats'" -Wind in the Willows Chapter 1
Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
In singles this has not been my experience. Hull shape can have a large impact on how a boat sets up. I've rowed a couple of different singles within one manufacturer's line -- on paper they were just different hull sizes, but what I found was that the hulls were drastically different. I found the smaller hull which I should have been a little bit under-boated for was a much more aggressive hull shape, and had a short stern. This in turn made it difficult to row even though I was clearly pushing its weight limit. The next hull size up was a more traditional long single with a flatter bottom. I was a little over-boated, yet on the water the thing was as stable as a rock. It has turned out to be a fantastic hull for me.rowfaster wrote:I think tippiness is a function of how well the boat fits a rower -- too light and it will tip side to side; too heavy and it's just a steady, heavy bathtub.
Some say that he once pulled a 5:56 2k arms and back only, and that his erg does float. All we know is that he's called The Stig.
Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
Stig I concur. Recently overboated in a test run in a superheavy KIRS, where the waterline on the shell stretched half the distance of King Ranch. Set was easy and allowed me to relax and reach a 65+ degree, (yeah I'm guessing) catch angle. My trial rows in 2 other popular shells that were Whopper sized for me were also relatively stable.
Re: First time on a Hudson single. Question
I purchased a relatively unused '97 Hudson last spring for aroud 3K and consider it to be the "best buy" of the boats that I have owned so far. I confess to being a "boat junkie", having bought at least 7 or 8 boats in the 12 years that I have been rowing. All used, all under 4k.. I just like trying out different stuff.. I almost envy folks that find one thing they like and stay with it for the rest of their life, but other than a VW bug, I never could come around to that...
The '97 Hudson is a very good boat, roomy cockpit, solid feel to the hull (had a WinTech once, it was like rowing a bass drum)... the boat sets nice, and is capable of going lots better than I can push it. As stated by others, 99.9% of the rowers out there rowing boats are not capable of driving boats to the limit of their designs.. the best boat for you is the boat that you can row the best, it is that simple... don't get caught up in all the nonsense about boats.. try out lots, and pick one.. find a good used one; in this economy, there are quite a few around. Find out all you can about how boats are constructed and how they are rigged, and what adjustments can be made to a boat that your are considering.. stay away from wood boats unless you like working with wood (as I do), in which case you can do your own repair and/or refinishing.
Rowingman
The '97 Hudson is a very good boat, roomy cockpit, solid feel to the hull (had a WinTech once, it was like rowing a bass drum)... the boat sets nice, and is capable of going lots better than I can push it. As stated by others, 99.9% of the rowers out there rowing boats are not capable of driving boats to the limit of their designs.. the best boat for you is the boat that you can row the best, it is that simple... don't get caught up in all the nonsense about boats.. try out lots, and pick one.. find a good used one; in this economy, there are quite a few around. Find out all you can about how boats are constructed and how they are rigged, and what adjustments can be made to a boat that your are considering.. stay away from wood boats unless you like working with wood (as I do), in which case you can do your own repair and/or refinishing.
Rowingman