Week 5: Picks + Polls

[Eightplusandunder]

http://www.row2k.com/results/resultspag ... 0F5A&cat=1

Close but no cigar.

[Cowbells123]

http://www.row2k.com/results/resultspag ... 4801&cat=1

Back from the interior for two and a half weeks and I see this first. Ready to see Penn v Princeton

Either Columbia got a bit faster or Cornell's game was a bit off. I'd expect larger margins here.

[DamnDaniel]

Woah, Woah, Woah.... I have no big red boner... I enjoy illuminating misperceptions and things I find funny (marty crotty/princeton.... colin farrell "not being that good") I also want to elaborate on my comment re: delaware being insane. Per the resolute website, a 2014 wing-rigged 8+ is 40,000.... safe to say a new one is at least $42,000...probably more).... An empacher all wing 8+ is (by my math, with 10% VAT and exchange to USD) about $39750...go big or go home and dump about $43750 on those pretty carbon wings.... someone can fact check for me, but I Bet I'm close. I just don't understand the logic, and if a current delaware guy could explain to me why they chose resolute over empacher or hudson , I'd be very grateful

Maybe Columbia finally figured it out this week? Maybe Cornell had a bad row... this year has been a weird one, but in a good way, I think.

The lightweight rowing fan in me (and in all of us, I imagine) would love to see an epic Sprints Final a la 2010 LM 4-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y_vPs-c-ZE) ... would especially be fitting considering they just got rid of the LM 4-....

It would be AWESOME to see 6 crews come down the course all within a length and have it come down to who has the biggest balls. Based on margins, it would lead one to believe that this year's got the potential to have it happen. A lot of ranking switches, a lot of close results. I hope nothing more than to see it happen.... unfortunately I don't think it'll be the case. College rowing is a whole different beast... expecting 54 (6x9) 18-22 year olds to all remain "focused, composed, and tough" and battle it out for 2000 meters is a BIG ask. It's much easier, mentally, to overcome a deficit. That one boat has surged ahead, and its easier to have "faith" that you can catch them if you have to. It takes a lot to feel "out" of a dual race. At sprints, what seems to happen is 1-4 crews go out at a seemingly suicidal pace. It's almost like poker where they bluff everyone else into thinking they're out of it.

Take the 2002 Sprints HWT GF for example (youtube video is probably out there)... Wisco and Harvard went off at this nutso pace... for them, it was a 2 boat race, and they pushed one another all the way down the course. For the others who were in the pack, they probably weren't THAT much slower, they just didn't "go for it" like the leaders. So of your 1-4 boats that go out hard, maybe 1-2 are those "this-is-actually-unsustainable" crews that get after it hard, die around 1000, and it becomes a 1-3 boat race for the medals with a separation off the rest of the pack. Usually it's 1-2 at the front, IMO.

This year is unique because margins could mean a lot of different things 1) crews are getting faster 2) crews are getting slower 3) lineup changes are working or they aren't 4) race plans are changing .... it's just a guessing game and it's too hard to speculate entirely. Yale not racing Cornell has thrown a wrench in everyone's predictive reasoning, H-Y-P remains the last, and final indicator of relative speed (and a relatively good one because all three crews are near the top).

I hope more than anything else that sprints goes down like the 2011 IRA lightweight final (but with 4-6 boats across instead of 2)....that would be race every one of those guys (ALL of them, not just the victorious 9) remember more than being part of an 8 that stomped all over everyone (which is fun in its own way, too)... but it'd also be something awesome for the sport and the fans, and the coaches (redistribute the recruiting wealth a little more evenly)....everyone loved the light 4- BECAUSE it was such an exciting event, unpredictable and close like a lot of horse racing. There's NOTHING worse than seeing a 6 boat parade.

My allegiance is to the fastest, best rowing crews only... and in my opinion, that's probably the Y150 lightweights, The Cal Women (just beat UW), and the Cal men.

[urgoodashimbadash]

Fastest don't always mean the 'best rowing' crews. However, speed matters -no matter how you get it.

"Good, Bad - I'm the guy with the gun"

[MaybeStarboard]

DamnDaniel,

Regarding the price of a new Empacher, I heard Drexel got their new one for $62,500. I don't know where that extra 20k comes from, but that is a whole lot more than a new Resolute (especially for a club team). And I believe the cost of a Hudson falls somewhere between the two?

Forget about the potential cost differences, why the hate for Resolute?

[skiphilly]

Columbia takes 5 weeks to gain some respect. What can they do with the next 5 weeks? Penn still not gaining the respect some think they deserve.

[DamnDaniel]

I don't think resolutes are particularly BAD boats, I don't think they're particularly great either. When's the last time a boat that wasn't a Hudson or Empacher won the IRA/Sprints Heavy 8 or Light 8? The last one I can think of is Yale in 2011 ? I honestly don't know, but I think it's been a while. (fall races don't count IMO).

I think remember when the V1 came out it was touted for having the lowest wetted surface area of any boat (so it should be the fastest, RIGHT?!?) it even won some big races if I remember. But I remember hating the way it felt. Maybe it wasn't actually going that slow, but it didn't feel "good" to row. I think others would agree. It's been a long time since I've been in an empacher 8, but I think what makes them so superior/favorable is that they allow you (the rower) to have superior "feel" for what you're doing. So maybe the raw potential of the boats are the same, but the fact that one allows you to develop more as an athlete (and a crew) is what makes it better.

Anyway, the conclusion to this rant is.... I think resolutes are the closest thing to the "bad V1 feel" that's left on the market (though I haven't been in the new King... but the old ones were great!)... So maybe empacher's are crazy expensive, but why not go with a Hudson, probably comparable in prince? or even the new vespoli? or pocock in the mid-50's I believe? Filippi is also low 40's.

The only tangible thing I can think of as to why delaware would spring for a resolute is the durability. Those things are rock hard, built to last, and that's good for a high school or club team that needs boats to last. Delaware, though, intends to compete with the big boys. Do your background work and you'll see they've got pretty strong ergs (Strong enough to be a threat assuming they row well). They've funded themselves well enough to pay for this shiny new equipment, but they aren't putting up the results. If I'm Delaware (and I'm not) I would be making decisions more towards the "what will let us compete with the best in the league?" rather than "what's going to be the most durable boat 6 years from now". Orient yourselves towards winning championships --> win championships --> recruit tons of new walk-ons --> lower club fees, increase revenue --> steady stream of recruits + 1-3 "solid" walk-ons each year = a team that's winning more races, more competitive, and can splurge on new stuff... oh and by the way, winning championships means young kids out of college (like me , a while back) will want to come and volunteer coach for you... It's obviously more nuanced, but the core idea remains the same...

[diabeticergos]

To wrap up this weekend's racing:

Dartmouth vs. Columbia (+Mercyhurst)

1v:
Columbia 622.0
Dartmouth 629.0
Mercyhurst 640.6

2v:
Columbia 634.8
Dartmouth 647.2
Mercyhurst 659.5

3v:
Columbia 641.1
Dartmouth 654.1

Slow racing (row2k says direct headwind) but nothing fantastic by Columbia, especially with almost 6 and a half minutes to go to work on the Big Green. Good on Dartmouth for sticking around.

[lt.wolf]

The mention of the Resolute eights always peaks my interest. I feel it needs to be rowed by strong rowers at a slightly higher rate to be most effective. Most rowing in them now are not at the strength level of their competitors using other brands and if everyone is rowing the same rate that eliminates the other factor I mention. Most end up bouncing the boat down the course and that is not effective. I feel you are paying too much to hump the whole way down a 2k course.

Hudson and Empacher have owned the top spot in the lightweight ( and open ) categories for years now and the King last won IRA's in 2011 with Yale over a Rez, rowed by Harvard and that was a real close race.

But don't think Yellow or a Shark is going to win the race, there are plenty of schools using yellow fishing for a win, did you like that play on words there. I kill myself.

I have seen a sprinkling of the Filippi eights out and about but those boats are relegated to the jv and below when yellow is available.

[Slim]

It'll be interesting to see if lightweight men's teams adopt the new pocock - it seems to be enjoying some success with the women.

[lt.wolf]

The only program who had any success was Dartmouth and they went yellow this year. The price of an Emapcher is just too good right now.

[DamnDaniel]

I was given an answer by someone who has firsthand knowledge re: the "Why Resolute, Delaware???" and the answer was : there's a lot of debris in the river, and they hit that debris often...

[lt.wolf]

I am pretty sure most hulls can handle debris floating in any river. It's a sport of speed and winning not hitting debris, do what works for you.

[Cowbells123]

I am pretty sure most hulls can handle debris floating in any river. It's a sport of speed and winning not hitting debris, do what works for you.

And here I thought we'd get some words of wisdom going forward in prep of Sprints and it's back to boring boat talk..sigh...knew what I was getting into when I hang out with guys

[lt.wolf]

You can blame that on Daniel and his yarns of floating....... debris.

It like Boyce and Harvard holds the cards going into Sprints. Remember, I called Harvard on the podcast.