US Men Empacher 8+ Rigging

[Andre]

Pictures on Row2k of the the US men training in an 8+ where the stern 6 have stern wing riggers and bow pair have bow wings. Any advantage here or are they just using the equipment they have available?

[Rowcoach]

Maybe just testing the newly released bow wing from Emp. Decide if they want to use it at the Games

[Rocket-Sauce]

Pictures on Row2k of the the US men training in an 8+ where the stern 6 have stern wing riggers and bow pair have bow wings. Any advantage here or are they just using the equipment they have available?

I doubt this is the case unless Empacher has options for both mounting locations.

[Mango]

Pictures on Row2k of the the US men training in an 8+ where the stern 6 have stern wing riggers and bow pair have bow wings. Any advantage here or are they just using the equipment they have available?

I doubt this is the case unless Empacher has options for both mounting locations.

They do.

https://i.redd.it/gcwid0jhj2051.jpg

[Mandolorian]

Can someone give a real/legit reason why bow wing riggers seem better than stern mounted ones? They obviously are becoming more popular, but do they genuinely result in a faster boat?

[lt.wolf]

“The bow-mounted wing rigger eliminates twisting and bending forces inflicted on the pin. Not only does this setup maximize the transfer of athlete power into boat speed, but also eliminates the need for a bowbrace.”

From the pocock website

My own feeling is it also provides better stability.

[cjrows]

It's interesting that no one speaks about how much heavier a bow mount aluminum rigger is. The bow mounted riggers (scull and sweep) are much larger than the stern mount. The Wintech sweep bow aluminum rigger has extra bracing built in that also adds weight. This bracing is necessary (you see it in the scull bow wings also on Hudson, Wintech and Vespoli) due to the lateral torque you get at catch and the finish.

IMHO the stern mount with the backstay spreads the forces more evenly on the hull (especially when the backstay is bolted to the next rigger behind) whereas a single mount location in sweep applies more twist to the hull. A triangle (stern mount/backstay) is a much more rigid system than a single arm (bow sweep).

Food for thought.....

C

[Sarge]

yet, the boats still come in at weight.

[cjrows]

True but you can now count on one hand how many regattas weigh boats in the USA and have several fingers left over.......

C

[boston_1x]

“The bow-mounted wing rigger eliminates twisting and bending forces inflicted on the pin. Not only does this setup maximize the transfer of athlete power into boat speed, but also eliminates the need for a bowbrace.”

From the pocock website

My own feeling is it also provides better stability.

Re pin force... shortening the distance between the oarlock and pin by putting the height adjustment under the wing also helps, although wing and hull need appropriate bushings/reinforcement. And obviously that is a bigger pain, re height adjustments.

[Mango]

It's interesting that no one speaks about how much heavier a bow mount aluminum rigger is. The bow mounted riggers (scull and sweep) are much larger than the stern mount. The Wintech sweep bow aluminum rigger has extra bracing built in that also adds weight. This bracing is necessary (you see it in the scull bow wings also on Hudson, Wintech and Vespoli) due to the lateral torque you get at catch and the finish.

IMHO the stern mount with the backstay spreads the forces more evenly on the hull (especially when the backstay is bolted to the next rigger behind) whereas a single mount location in sweep applies more twist to the hull. A triangle (stern mount/backstay) is a much more rigid system than a single arm (bow sweep).

Food for thought.....

C

If you are rowing at a high enough level that boat weight is a significant difference maker, then all the regattas that matter are weighing the shell. Otherwise the difference in weight between the rigger in a bow mount aluminum vs. carbon is negligible to performance. Nobody is talking about it because it is not a huge deal, especially in sculling. Even at youths, the wintech 4+/- is putting weight in the boat to get to minimum. The weight doesn't start to get wonky until you start putting 8+ aluminum bow mounted riggers in a boat, which Wintech recommends not doing for that very reason.

For reference I am a bit of a former has been sculler with what the kiddos would have called a "fat ergo". Pre-pandemic I looked into getting another boat and I have no interest in spending money on a carbon rigger, bow or stern. I rowed for years in a bow mounted aluminum rigger before it was the cool thing to do and I won a lot more than a lost. Zac Purchase set the word record in an aluminum bow mount against a bunch of aluminum stern mounts and carbon two stays that are much lighter.

[cjrows]

My question to you guys that row singles a lot more than I do, how does the boat feel different with a carbon wing instead of an aluminum wing? That's got to change the feel in the balance. I know carbon wings weigh 1.5-2.0 lbs lighter than their aluminum counterparts these days.....

As for performance, do you think 2lbs make a difference in a single? I know lots of masters that buy boats think so

CJ

[Mango]

My question to you guys that row singles a lot more than I do, how does the boat feel different with a carbon wing instead of an aluminum wing? That's got to change the feel in the balance. I know carbon wings weigh 1.5-2.0 lbs lighter than their aluminum counterparts these days.....

As for performance, do you think 2lbs make a difference in a single? I know lots of masters that buy boats think so

CJ

No, my 1x was about 2 lbs under weight. I never noticed adding a big wrench or two to the foot boards. The same way you wouldn’t notice the weight of your Nalgene when you launch from the dock. Other than it rolling around obviously. Also coaches aren’t dumping water bottles before time trials, selection pieces etc. Or taking a half split off because of water bottles. Nobody has ever lost a race because one coxswain or sculler had their tool bag with them for an emergency while another rolled the dice with theirs on shore.

There are a lot more masters rowers than there are people training for the Olympics. Also masters generally have some money to spend and they like having the newest, coolest, shiniest thing. This isn’t rowing specific, it happens a lot in masters cycling, triathlons, etc.

The carbon rigger just has less give and less room for error. It’s a bit touchier. I am quick enough now to “f*ck up some smart kids” as they say, and honestly I prefer an aluminum wing these days, it is more forgiving. I need that in my life. Ha! I do prefer the bow mount in the 1x. I feel more stable at the front end, but that might be just preference. I have no data to support that.

[yeahbuddy]

Its easier to add weight to a hull than take it out. Vespoli singles VHP and SD are 3-10 lbs over

[Andre]

3-10lbs....Why would anyone buy one then???