Kanghua?

[Rowing East]

My club's in the market for a midweight 4+. New Empachers and Filippis are out of our price range. A cheaper Fluidesign (Fluid Fleet) might be an option, but they unfortunately don't make coxed fours.

My club has mostly Wintechs. I don't love those because I feel that it's a steady, slightly less efficient hull design, and I'm looking for an elite hull shape, so Swift and Kanghua come to mind.

Does anyone have experience with Kanghua?

[bloomp]

I’d put Swift above Kanghua...

[petermech]

Klause Filter was the designer of the Wintech hulls. He has an extensive background. I don't know if the Wintech four has been tested but when the single was tested against other makes by Valery Kleshnev the Wintech did well.
Wintech offers different construction so if your club ordered the competitor hull instead of the medalist hull because of cost I can see that not having as stiff of a boat as a issue for top response.
If you feel steady in a hull that can be a good thing. That can help the rowers be relaxed on the recovery instead of having to use muscle to correct imbalances. If a boat is not stable it may be difficult for the crew to apply power effectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Filter

[Rowing East]

I've always actually been happy with the durability of the Wintechs. Our oldest is 13 years old, and they seem to hold up as well as any other boat (except Fluid, which is the only boat I've ever seen survive a full-speed head on collision unscathed). Wintech's self-bailing design is really groundbreaking. I've done 10k with waves crashing over the gunwhales in a Wintech, and I'm not sure I would have made it in another boat.

I've never rowed a King hull, but I was initially interested in them because I know the Columbia lights really liked them. I spoke to a person at Wintech a week or two ago who told me that the King hulls were actually more stable version than the standard Wintech hulls, which I figured would translate to slower?

I have a great deal of respect for Klaus Filter, and he certainly knows more about boat design than I ever will, but I tend to think he was prioritizing stability over speed when designing the Wintech hull. I’ve spent a lot of time training in singles from Wintech (International), Vespoli, Fluid, and Empacher. My testing is certainly less scientific than Kleshnev's, but I was always noticeably slower in the Wintech and Vespoli, and faster in the Fluid and Empacher. It seems like none of the shorter hulls that supposedly have less drag (Wintech, E and VHP Vespolis, Resolute) have ever really been embraced at the elite level, and I'm more influenced by which boats people choose to bring to the Olympics than I am by a test done in a pool.

Peter, I think the mentality that you’re referencing (a.k.a. Pocock’s “platform for pulling”) certainly has its place. There are definitely a lot of crews that are going to be faster in a more stable boat. A novice who learned to row last week will be faster in an old wintech trainer 1x than he would be in a new Empacher 1x. My club's technique is pretty solid, but we're quite lacking when it comes to strength, so we really need to squeeze every bit of speed that we can out of the hull.

Bloomp, what about Swift makes you prefer it to Kanghua?

Anyone else who's rowed a Kanghua?

[JD]

we’ve had a number of Wintechs and they are pretty tough structurally. One of our quads (2007) took a full till hit on an underwater snag and broke off the carbon fin. That would have knocked the finbox out of most boats. (Newer Vespoli and Huds are much better now) But the exterior layer of carbon is seemingly more easily broken through by a minor tap than, say, Vespoli’s Rhino skin, Fluid or a later model Hud. A minor careless tap with an oar blade cuts the thin exterior carbon.

Otherwise, the boats are pretty unpopular with club members. The seats are too small for hvy Men and women and the feel of the short, deep boats is foreign to those who usually row other brands. We had a 2x that just sat there for years when the older and beat up huds went out, and the Wintech eight is always last to go out.

[Rocket-Sauce]

Kanghua and Swift both sport very high quality build. Swift is a little cheaper, but also looks it. I think the major price difference is in the fittings. Kanghua uses European built fittings -riggers, tracks etc. and it shows. Neater welds. More precise cuts etc.

Both builders need much better marketing material. Their websites are no help.

FWIW, the only two makers I saw at Leander Club two summers ago (2016) were Empacher and Kanghua (aside from private singles). Leander knows a thing or two about rowing, and has nearly limitless funds. They could have any boat maker they want.

Pretty good endorsement.

[tewbz]

(except Fluid, which is the only boat I've ever seen survive a full-speed head on collision unscathed). ?

Had that happen to me. Head on collision with a 2x, both myself and the double were at race pace. Resulted in a hole torn in the bottom of the 2x, a large hole in my back requiring emergency surgery... annnnd nothing but a small scratch and a separation on an already repaired splashguard on my fluid.

[petermech]

I very much appreciate the thoughtful comments in this thread. I have a medalist 2007 carbon Wintech quad. The only damage so far was hitting a six foot long, 8 inch in diameter log floating at water surface level. The fin did not break away easy enough and cracked the skin at the fin box. About a $1000 repair. The log had a cut in it like it got hit by an axe and the fin stuck in it. The other was a one inch slight crack near the bow from a blade hitting the bottom. I don't know why the sculler did not move out of the way as it was on a long straight away and going in the same direction. I think buying the higher model boat makes a difference in what the rowers think of the boat. Seats are replaceable and I think you could order Croaker seats or to go with the Wintech and they may have a new mold for the seats since 2007.
I use to have a Van Dusen traditional hull and now have the advantage model. With the traditional model if a person looked at me they would think I was setting the boat well. To keep it set I was using a bunch of small adjustments so muscle were working...with the advantage model I was able to relax on the recovery and with the easier set be better prepared for the catch at the end of the recovery. I think that is where more of my thought comes from with set.
At a club they tested some quads against each other. One persons comment was that the club should buy X boat because the shoes where too high in boat Y. The shoes were adjustable up or down by undoing two or three wing nuts and moving the plate. That is one of the reasons I appreciate the thoughtful comments.

[Rowing East]

The shoe height story is very funny. I once asked a rower from Cal whether he thought Vespoli or Resolute eights were better. He said the Vespolis were much better, with tremendous confidence. I asked him why. He replied that his water bottle always moved around in the Resolute, whereas it stayed in his footwell in the Vespoli.

[JD]

The shoe height story is very funny. I once asked a rower from Cal whether he thought Vespoli or Resolute eights were better. He said the Vespolis were much better, with tremendous confidence. I asked him why. He replied that his water bottle always moved around in the Resolute, whereas it stayed in his footwell in the Vespoli.

Science triumphs again.