Basic trainer

[terry]

Looking for a few basic trainers to start a sculling program. does anyone have any suggestions. Looking for something that will take some rough treatment and last a while but will be a good introduction to people wanting to learn to scull.
Terry

[JD]

Terry:

How basic and how much?

Real basic is a Wintech 21 or 24, leading to their bottom of the line single, which one can race. We've had real good luck with these at Minneapolis RC.

The Pienert is rugged and reasonably priced, as is the Mass single. Both are racing hulls.

[Scott @ Noble Hardware]

We've had good success with Maas 24 and Aero boats for learn-to-row. Most people do ok in the narrower 24, but a few are more comfortable in the wider hull. The boats hold up pretty well and are up to a novice head or sprint race.

[klemt]

Take a look at the Edon training sculls. they have pontoons for beginners and are pretty fast for their size, they are also dirt cheap and unbreakable. we have 4 at our club and get a lot more scullers in since we started using them. www.virginiarowing.com are the people that sell them.

If you want something more advanced then Maas Aero and the closest thing to a racing shell, the maas 24, both excellent boats but about twice the price of the Edons.

larry

[AOBSS]

As a regular ocean rower and competitor in the Blackburn challenge http://blackburnchallenge.com/ I have rowed many rec/open water models and I would agree with the sentiments of the others. With rec/open water boats you have lots of choices and many companies have a good local dealer network. I would like to add that the Wintech 21 is quite speedy for its dimensions and is competitive with longer shells. I've owned an Alden 18 since 1980 and it is still going strong. I've rowed gail force storms in it. Many ocean rowers like the echo racing islander because it is easy to transport. The Echo Ace along with Pienert Dolphin are usually top finishers in open water races. Other makes I haven't tried but have heard some good things about would include Little Marine, Virus, and Stampfli/Euro Diffusion's Coastal. The Virus is a sliding rigger boat and is cool to watch. It might also teach beginners to check the boat less.

[terry]

Thanks for the responses so far. I've rowed most of the Maas range and they are wondeful boats. Looking for something more robust though. ITWOLF sent me a link to the Wintech Explorer page, we have one of the 21s and it seems to be permanently off the water for repair so we don't really want to repeat that mistake. I think we're leaning towards the Maas Aero at the moment but hope to try other options.
Terry

[terry]

Hi All,
Thanks to this board and a couple of other contacts we were able to test drive a few recreational / open water boats over the weekend and thought you all might like to know what we thought. The observations are based on our requirement for a boat that we can use for novices and intermediates with a view to people moving on to racing shells:

In no particular order.

Little river Sprint. Has a drop in unit and is very stable, a little slow. Tricky to pick up and seems to sit high in the water. This was our least favorite of the boats we tried at the weekend as nothing seemed to be in the right place rigging wise. $3600

Echo. Real heavy but stable and fast for a small boat. no skeg and it tracked badly at the slighted boat wash. rigging was good, it has folding riggers and everything seems to be rigged correctly. the draw back was the weight and the price. $4300

Maas Aero. We like this boat, it's fast and easy to row, round bottomed so a little more tippy than the Echo. Wonderfully desighned and put together and light enough to pick up. Might be a bit fragile for the day to day abuse it would get in the club learn to row programs. $4000

Edon. Unusual design but fast and easy to row for a 17 foot boat. unbreakable and it comes with pontoons for the novices. take the pontoons off and it's ideal for intermediates. We liked this one a lot and it was the lowest price boat we saw at $2350

Peinert Dolphin. Wonderful boat but not learn to row, more a racing shell than a recreational boat. well designed and we had a lot of fun in it. $4875

Peinert Zepher. Well made and looks like it will last forever. Stable, pretty light and OK to row. $4000. The rigging on the old used one that we got to row was a bit out which didn't help. A very good boat though. $4050

Virus. Heavy, very heavy and slow but unbreakable and stable. didn't like the red plastic seat and the span was too narrow. heck it was heavy. $2800 though is a good price for any rowboat. $2800.

We're going to have a think about what to buy,but are leaning towards a mix of Edons and Aeros.

Terry

[sul]

Hi All,
Thanks to this board and a couple of other contacts we were able to test drive a few recreational / open water boats over the weekend and thought you all might like to know what we thought. The observations are based on our requirement for a boat that we can use for novices and intermediates with a view to people moving on to racing shells:

In no particular order.

Little river Sprint. Has a drop in unit and is very stable, a little slow. Tricky to pick up and seems to sit high in the water. This was our least favorite of the boats we tried at the weekend as nothing seemed to be in the right place rigging wise. $3600

Echo. Real heavy but stable and fast for a small boat. no skeg and it tracked badly at the slighted boat wash. rigging was good, it has folding riggers and everything seems to be rigged correctly. the draw back was the weight and the price. $4300

Maas Aero. We like this boat, it's fast and easy to row, round bottomed so a little more tippy than the Echo. Wonderfully desighned and put together and light enough to pick up. Might be a bit fragile for the day to day abuse it would get in the club learn to row programs. $4000

Edon. Unusual design but fast and easy to row for a 17 foot boat. unbreakable and it comes with pontoons for the novices. take the pontoons off and it's ideal for intermediates. We liked this one a lot and it was the lowest price boat we saw at $2350

Peinert Dolphin. Wonderful boat but not learn to row, more a racing shell than a recreational boat. well designed and we had a lot of fun in it. $4875

Peinert Zepher. Well made and looks like it will last forever. Stable, pretty light and OK to row. $4000. The rigging on the old used one that we got to row was a bit out which didn't help. A very good boat though. $4050

Virus. Heavy, very heavy and slow but unbreakable and stable. didn't like the red plastic seat and the span was too narrow. heck it was heavy. $2800 though is a good price for any rowboat. $2800.

We're going to have a think about what to buy,but are leaning towards a mix of Edons and Aeros.

Terry

Terry

I don't know a lot of the boats you tested, but thanks for sharing the info you researched. I wanted to throw in that the Maas boats are pretty sturdy club use boats. I teach all our beginners in them, I've taught hundreds at two clubs, there's only a very few people who would benefit from a more stable boat on their first day of sculling, and in that case it's just as well you take them out in a double and steady the boat for them. They are very easy relative to other boats to climb back in after falling in.

The rest of their boats complement the Aero nicely, you can share parts across them, very valuable in a club situation, Maas clogs are very nice for club use, and boats are salt water friendly.

It would be nice if they had a lightweight single hull (the flyweight is a wonderful boat though), and I've asked them to think about redesigning the Aero with hand holds to make it easier for one person to launch, but they are not so inclined - my one quibble with them.



I have no stake in the boat company.

[terry]

We placed an order for 2 Edons over the weekend having had another chance to get out in one. We think these will meet our novice and intermediate needs and so we wont need the Aeros. We do think that we would like a step between the Edons and the racing shells and the best candidate seems to be the Mass 24. We are going to sleep on that for a while but possibly get two of those plus possibly two more Edons if they work out well.

Thanks for everyones help.

Terry

[caustic]

Bay Shells has been resurrected, and for a good trainer or open water, they make some nice boats. Check 'em out.

http://www.bayshellsrowing.com/

[Bucky]

sul's experience is gold. (Especially in bringing someone up to speed in a 2x if they are incompatible with rowing alone before going solo.) And Maas boats are worth your rower's time on the first row and, with the 24, for most club rower's future. Durable, simple, sprite. Very easy to adjust for difference sizes. I have put a 6 year old in a Mass 24 and had it ready for my 210lb carcass within a minute after it came to dock. Very nice run for a flat bottom shorty.
Our club has enjoyed the Wintech 24 as well. It may be important for your club that Wintech's wing rigger, sharp graphics, and footstretchers are sexier than the uber simple Maas look. I have no stake in Maas or Wintech.

[klemt]

I would agree with Sul, the whole Maas range is just a joy to row. I confess I am not a big fan of the Explorers, Wintech seem to make them cheap and flashy and they don't seem to stand up to much punishment. Glad to see you have ordered two Edons, they are money well spent and the Maas 24 is not only a great transition boat to racing shells but it's a great boat in it's own right and an excellent open water racer.

Larry

[berryboy]

The Edon TS515 is a great introduction to sculling. We have two at the club and they are used constantly by learn to row, novices, intermediates and the recreational brigade. The best money the club ever spent IMO, a lttle over $2k a piece 2 years ago from Virginia Rowing the US agents for the boats.

Yes the Maas boats are also excellent, I had a 24 as my first scull and got a lot of use out of it, highly recommend them. Don't forget Peinert though if you're looking at an open water boat, the dolphin is very fast.

Steve

[terry]

One last thing.

We've recieved our 2 Edon training boats and we're very pleased with them, particularly as one of our novices dropped one on Sunday and it didn't break.

I have a question on rigging though. The rigging on the Edons looks pretty standard, span is 159cm and everything else looks normal. We've shortened the outboard on the sculls we're using with them but left everything else as is. Do folks think that this is about right for a recreational boat, it feels about right and the boat row real well?

Thanks

Terry

[sul]

One last thing.

We've recieved our 2 Edon training boats and we're very pleased with them, particularly as one of our novices dropped one on Sunday and it didn't break.

I have a question on rigging though. The rigging on the Edons looks pretty standard, span is 159cm and everything else looks normal. We've shortened the outboard on the sculls we're using with them but left everything else as is. Do folks think that this is about right for a recreational boat, it feels about right and the boat row real well?

Thanks

Terry

This sounds fine. Shortening oars is a good idea, with an inboard of around 88 cm or so. What I've done at clubs I teach at
is to have a couple sets of oars with a very short inboard - 85-86 for much shorter ppl to row the rec boats with. While
it's an extra load for training, most ppl are cruising around enjoying the water. This way there is less crossover and they
can finish the stroke with hands more comfortably separated.. Else they finish the stroke with hands together (because
they can't set footboards further to bow).

This is what's so great about the Maas flyweight (again I have no connection). Have one or two of them in your singles stack,
allow nobody over 150 lbs to row them to keep use limited to the ppl who are too small for most rec boats like the Aero.

The clubbers love these boats, you can rig them specially for 5'5" ppl, shorter spans, oars, and inboards.