HOCR 2025

[fullmetal]

That's true. And it doesn't have to be a rude conversation either, just a "hey, how are you, this is who we are, we think we'll pass you at [X] point, round of drinks on us if you keep an eye out for us please?"

Maybe ask for a round of autographs and selfies later if you're the slow boat!

[Remomex]

Did no one else actually see the incident or am I going crazy?

Leander caught a crab, which led to the collision. Unless I saw something that no one else did.

[fullmetal]

The video I saw didn't show any evidence of crab, and the video showed Leander at least five or six strokes before the collision, though the location/moment of collision was blocked by spectators. Clean rowing showing 2-3 seats of open water between Leander and Yale, and Leander showing no effort to steer off the fastest line.

[dresser]

Leander's 7-seat clipped the the last buoy at Winsor dock which cause her to crab and Yale had nowhere to go.

[fullmetal]

Leander should have begun efforts to yield when Yale closed the gap to a length of open water. That is when the umpires expect yield efforts to begin (and in junior regionals time trials, some would say two lengths, depending on how quickly the gap is being closed). The yield should be complete by the time the passer is within half a length of open water. It's the responsibility of the boat being overtaken to get it done, and Yale had really closed to that half-length gap right around Eliot.

[sandor]

Leander should have begun efforts to yield when Yale closed the gap to a length of open water. That is when the umpires expect yield efforts to begin (and in junior regionals time trials, some would say two lengths, depending on how quickly the gap is being closed). The yield should be complete by the time the passer is within half a length of open water. It's the responsibility of the boat being overtaken to get it done, and Yale had really closed to that half-length gap right around Eliot.

This should be clearly (and boldly) highlighted at every pre-head race meeting.

[Remomex]

If HOCR actually stood by its guidelines, 1/4 to 1/2 of the boats in every event would be penalized. Very few crews actually yield the way the rules spells it out.

It's also incredibly hard to enforce, especially because the people issuing penalties are volunteers and are understaffed. The number of missed buoy penalties that never get assessed is not insignficant. And there are penalties given that are later retracted because they were mistakes. Too many boats, too many possible penalties, not enough refs/umps/volunteers to assess them.

[sandor]

If HOCR actually stood by its guidelines, 1/4 to 1/2 of the boats in every event would be penalized. Very few crews actually yield the way the rules spells it out.

It's also incredibly hard to enforce, especially because the people issuing penalties are volunteers and are understaffed. The number of missed buoy penalties that never get assessed is not insignficant. And there are penalties given that are later retracted because they were mistakes. Too many boats, too many possible penalties, not enough refs/umps/volunteers to assess them.

9 stationary refs would put them every 500 meters between the start & finish.
Maybe that simply is too much to ask.

[fullmetal]

9 stationary refs would put them every 500 meters between the start & finish.
Maybe that simply is too much to ask.

The course isn't straight, and you have to have good views of both sides of the course (it's wide!). Plus refs have to watch out for collisions and such at the same time that they're watching for buoys, and you would have to keep track of the entire 500m stretch simultaneously because boats are constantly in every stretch of that water. And you have to keep an eye on "developing" situations before they happen, so your attention becomes fixed maybe at about 50m when some boat at 450m decides to clip a single buoy. Oh, and there are a lot of boats. And every time any penalty occurs, you have to do paperwork: a written description and a clear diagram showing boat position over time. After the paperwork, you input the penalty into a small wireless tablet (electronically).

Nine is clearly not sufficient.

[sandor]

9 stationary refs would put them every 500 meters between the start & finish.
Maybe that simply is too much to ask.

The course isn't straight, and you have to have good views of both sides of the course (it's wide!). Plus refs have to watch out for collisions and such at the same time that they're watching for buoys, and you would have to keep track of the entire 500m stretch simultaneously because boats are constantly in every stretch of that water. And you have to keep an eye on "developing" situations before they happen, so your attention becomes fixed maybe at about 50m when some boat at 450m decides to clip a single buoy. Oh, and there are a lot of boats. And every time any penalty occurs, you have to do paperwork: a written description and a clear diagram showing boat position over time. After the paperwork, you input the penalty into a small wireless tablet (electronically).

Nine is clearly not sufficient.

Yes, officiating is demanding & if you chronically under-staff/under-value your officiating, yes, you end up with poor enforcement.

I have no idea how many officials are on the course, or what their individual roles are, all i was trying to say is that there are probably a multitude of steps that could be taken between status quo and total enforcement of the rules rather than just throwing your hands up & saying it is what it is.

[Remomex]

Your above comment was not directed at me, but to be clear, I'm not criticizing HOCR. My point is anyone who thinks it's easy doesn't actually understand anything about how HOCR and penalties work.

As fullmetal said there are 40+ boats in each event, starting in 10-15s centers, and a lot that can happen at any part of the course. You have buoys on both sides of some parts of the course, bends, wind, etc. I don't think there's a contingent of people up in arms about penalty enforcement - it's just part of head racing and HOCR.

Would it be nice if they were better enforced? Absolutely. I've been on the negative end of missed penalties and non-yielding boats many times.

[fullmetal]

The rules are written such that total enforcement would actually be very nice imo. What would really help is easily accessible video, either by drone or from a referee vantage point, so that the referees can immediately ascertain details. The practicality of that is left as an exercise for the reader.

[crewu]

If HOCR actually stood by its guidelines, 1/4 to 1/2 of the boats in every event would be penalized. Very few crews actually yield the way the rules spells it out.

Over crowded race course.

Bridges.

An event that does not appear to seed fast crews that didn't race the previous year.

Ego hierarchy that doesn't meet actual boat speed.

What could go wrong?
Please manage expectations.

[fatsculler]

If HOCR actually stood by its guidelines, 1/4 to 1/2 of the boats in every event would be penalized. Very few crews actually yield the way the rules spells it out.

Over crowded race course.

Bridges.

An event that does not appear to seed fast crews that didn't race the previous year.

Ego hierarchy that doesn't meet actual boat speed.

What could go wrong?
Please manage expectations.

Interestingly in the UK in a head race the crew overtaking has to move out to pass rather than the slower crew yielding

[cleetus]

Interestingly in the UK in a head race the crew overtaking has to move out to pass rather than the slower crew yielding

This is interesting--what is the general thinking behind this approach? I am genuinely curious to hear the pros and cons.

(Also, I am fresh from being a launch driver for a referee observing a ton of U19 and masters crews at head race...)