NSR I

[Mango]

A lot of weird takes here. None of them addressed my questions around how the rules of selection have changed. Using CRC and men’s sculling was just an easy example.

Men's sculling is never a good example in USA. A change in "selection rules" won't fix 12+ years of complete NGB abdication and neglect.

That said. Ben D. is an A finalist at u23’s. and there are 3 other scullers within a reasonable margin. Are these guys world beaters? Not currently. But there seems to be some momentum around that sculling group. Much more than we’ve seen out of any other group in the last decade.

They will do great at U23s then, until they turn 23. We can't even turn our U23 sweeps into Senior medals. I don't think there's enough powdered unicorn horn to cast the spell on the scullers.

The selection rules are vague. This regatta is sculling only. What happens if one club wins the next 3 seats up for grabs but turn down the entries in the specific event. The wording of the new rules are vague other than guaranteeing a spot on the team. Prior rules were very specific.

[rowing]

Prior rules were about filling specific boat classes. New directive is identifying potential talent. This is no longer event shopping. It is roster building. It turns the USA stable into a super club, instead of relying on a lost and found dynamic at last minute trials.

At least in theory.

[lt.wolf]

“ New directive is identifying potential talent.”

I would agree with this statement. But then what ? What are the standards ? Where do the athletes go from there ?

[rowing]

“ New directive is identifying potential talent.”

I would agree with this statement. But then what ? What are the standards ?

The standards are maintain adequate progress (metrics TBD?) and wait for boating assignment from Josy and staff.

Make no mistake, this is all designed to end the longstanding event focus and replace with a process focus.

It will be hard for some to accept. If USRowing can keep a dedicated boot on this, the resistance should crumble within 3 years.

[yeahbuddy]

Reinstitute time standards.

[Remomex]

Wonder what Clark Dean would look like in a single after college. Hope Isaiah Harrison makes it through college without losing his small boat skills too.

Who knows, but neither is/would be faster than Ben Davison IMO. The 1x is Ben's to lose. He's got the horsepower and boat moving ability to take that boat to Worlds and contend.

[eeoyre]

Wonder what Clark Dean would look like in a single after college. Hope Isaiah Harrison makes it through college without losing his small boat skills too.

Who knows, but neither is/would be faster than Ben Davison IMO. The 1x is Ben's to lose. He's got the horsepower and boat moving ability to take that boat to Worlds and contend.

I'll agree with you on Harrison, but Dean's got the horsepower and boat moving ability in spades. Just a question of whether or not he'd want to apply it to a single. He's four years younger than Davison, has been to the same number of Olympics, and has three Junior Worlds sculling medals to Davison's none (and Harrison's one).

[sandor]

Reinstitute time standards.

Why should we have to be compared to the rest of the world?



..i can already imagine the parental push for every prep kid having a head start because they have been diagnosed with <insert disorder here>...

[Remomex]

Wonder what Clark Dean would look like in a single after college. Hope Isaiah Harrison makes it through college without losing his small boat skills too.

Who knows, but neither is/would be faster than Ben Davison IMO. The 1x is Ben's to lose. He's got the horsepower and boat moving ability to take that boat to Worlds and contend.

I'll agree with you on Harrison, but Dean's got the horsepower and boat moving ability in spades. Just a question of whether or not he'd want to apply it to a single. He's four years younger than Davison, has been to the same number of Olympics, and has three Junior Worlds sculling medals to Davison's none (and Harrison's one).

Yeah but Clark never raced U23s. Ben raced U23s multiple times and has 2 B final "wins" and a 4th A final in his last year of eligibility. He's also lit up the HOCR course recently. And didn't he beat Clark last time both were in the 1x?

Anyway, it's all conjecture, but I think Ben is a better sculler without question. Junior results are somewhat meaningless 5+ years later. Clark was training under an elite junior coach/program, Ben was coached by his father, who knew nothing about rowing and started a rowing club for his sons. Not even comparable.

But, I suppose we can agree there's at least two very fast scullers who are still young and could put up respectable results in the 1x (or a 2x???)

[rowing]

Reinstitute time standards.

As a gatekeeper to what? The roster?

Just for cross-eyed gigglies, this morning's % of GMS ranking

LW1x S2 - 96.6%
LW1x S1 - 95.9%
W1x S2 - 95.8%
W1x S1 - 95.2%
M1x S1 - 95.1%
M1x S2 - 94.5%
LM1x S2 - 94.2%
LM1x S1 - 94.1%

What does this say to you? Genuinely curious.

[sandor]

Glad to see 80-odd single out there racing a full progression.

Being required to put together 3-4 fast races in 4 days is different that laying down fast 2k.

[sandor]

Reinstitute time standards.

As a gatekeeper to what? The roster?

Just for cross-eyed gigglies, this morning's % of GMS ranking

LW1x S2 - 96.6%
LW1x S1 - 95.9%
W1x S2 - 95.8%
W1x S1 - 95.2%
M1x S1 - 95.1%
M1x S2 - 94.5%
LM1x S2 - 94.2%
LM1x S1 - 94.1%

What does this say to you? Genuinely curious.

There looks to be more speed on the water in the W1x & M1x than there was @ Oly trials.
I think training to be fast compared to the world's best is probably going to result in higher success than trying to be slow compared to the world's best.

Simple direct comparison for Olympic boats -

Top 6 M1x in the semis have already out performed the previous Olympic trials winner.
Top 6 W1x are close to the performance @ Olympic trials.


Olympic trials -> NSR Semi 1 --> NSR Semi 2

Screen Shot 2022-03-24 at 11.57.39 AM.jpg (228.03 KiB) Viewed 701 times

Screen Shot 2022-03-24 at 12.00.45 PM.jpg (474.68 KiB) Viewed 701 times

[rowing]

Yeah but Clark never raced U23s. Ben raced U23s multiple times and has 2 B final "wins" and a 4th A final in his last year of eligibility. He's also lit up the HOCR course recently. And didn't he beat Clark last time both were in the 1x?

Clark never raced U23s because he won the JM1x in '17 and '18, and then was boated in the M4- in 2019, eyeing up Toyko for 2020. 5th in the M4- in 2019, 5th in the M4- in Toyko 2020/1. I think we could agree he wasn't dodging (or missing out) on U23s since retiring from the junior field.

I think the last time Clark and Ben went head to head in the 1x for 2000m, it was 2018 trials, when Clark doubled up to win JM1x slot and finished 2nd in the U23 trial, and Ben doubled up in the U23 1x and the M2x trials. I don't know how much that speaks to focus or dominance.

But, I suppose we can agree there's at least two very fast scullers who are still young and could put up respectable results in the 1x (or a 2x???)

It would be awesome to see the M2x as a Josy roster priority, but who knows what will get the nod. I suspect that will be the finer application of GMS metrics.

[eeoyre]

Wonder what Clark Dean would look like in a single after college. Hope Isaiah Harrison makes it through college without losing his small boat skills too.

Who knows, but neither is/would be faster than Ben Davison IMO. The 1x is Ben's to lose. He's got the horsepower and boat moving ability to take that boat to Worlds and contend.

I'll agree with you on Harrison, but Dean's got the horsepower and boat moving ability in spades. Just a question of whether or not he'd want to apply it to a single. He's four years younger than Davison, has been to the same number of Olympics, and has three Junior Worlds sculling medals to Davison's none (and Harrison's one).

Yeah but Clark never raced U23s. Ben raced U23s multiple times and has 2 B final "wins" and a 4th A final in his last year of eligibility. He's also lit up the HOCR course recently. And didn't he beat Clark last time both were in the 1x?

Anyway, it's all conjecture, but I think Ben is a better sculler without question. Junior results are somewhat meaningless 5+ years later. Clark was training under an elite junior coach/program, Ben was coached by his father, who knew nothing about rowing and started a rowing club for his sons. Not even comparable.

But, I suppose we can agree there's at least two very fast scullers who are still young and could put up respectable results in the 1x (or a 2x???)

As rowing pointed out, skipping the U23 level to go to the senior level and the Olympics is probably not a sign of weakness. Neither is being the first American man to win junior worlds in the single in 50 years. And then repeating.

All I am saying is that it's not at all crystal clear that Davison has higher upside that Dean in the single

Given that Davison's best international results are with one oar, I think I'd be more curious to see a Davison/Dean 2-.

[rowing]

I think I'd be more curious to see a Davison/Dean 2-.

Have to say that moved my pants a little. You might be on to something.