USRowing Summer championships

[scullerjonny]

Apparently Greenwich water club's M8 was the same lineup for U17, U19, U23 and Senior and the only reason they didn't win U23 was a boat stopping crab. Same matchup occurred in the Senior event and the result was Greenwich beating U23 winner by 9 seconds - racing against a bunch o college kids. There were two 8th graders in the boat... Better to have everyone racing at the same time so you can find this out...

[lt.wolf]

They could go to two separate regattas. One for u-19 and u-17 and another for u-23 and senior events.

Two eighth graders in the men’s open event !!! Really ?

[BowwwwBallll]

Apparently Greenwich water club's M8 was the same lineup for U17, U19, U23 and Senior and the only reason they didn't win U23 was a boat stopping crab. Same matchup occurred in the Senior event and the result was Greenwich beating U23 winner by 9 seconds - racing against a bunch o college kids. There were two 8th graders in the boat... Better to have everyone racing at the same time so you can find this out...

Dang. It's enough to give you whiplash.

[fullmetal]

Apparently Greenwich water club's M8 was the same lineup for U17, U19, U23 and Senior and the only reason they didn't win U23 was a boat stopping crab. Same matchup occurred in the Senior event and the result was Greenwich beating U23 winner by 9 seconds - racing against a bunch o college kids. There were two 8th graders in the boat... Better to have everyone racing at the same time so you can find this out...

Wait, what?? No shenanigans?

[cleetus]

Here are the lineups from Regatta Central:

https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/ ... rg_id=2226

Event 8 Mens U17 8+
Greenwich Crew (A)
H. Waters/F. Dosmond/S. Wilson/M. Willott/M. Chung/M. Raabe/W. Drinkall/B. Gans/N. Walding (Cox)/


Event 18 Mens U19 8+
Greenwich Crew (A)
S. Terry/B. Mark/w. lebrun/M. Willott/M. Chung/R. Bryant/S. Wilson/E. Genden, Jr./E. Seguin (Cox)/

Greenwich Crew (B)
N. Ellis/K. Lambrakis/M. Korvyakov/C. Frascella/Z. Isaacs/L. Corsano-Leopizzi/S. Smith/R. Conway/D. Garrett (Cox)/

Event 38 Mens U23 8+
Greenwich Crew (A)
S. Terry/B. Mark/w. lebrun/M. Willott/M. Chung/R. Bryant/S. Wilson/E. Genden, Jr./E. Seguin (Cox)/


Event 76 Mens 8+
Greenwich Crew (A)
S. Terry/B. Mark/w. lebrun/M. Willott/M. Chung/R. Bryant/S. Wilson/E. Genden, Jr./E. Seguin (Cox)/

[scullerjonny]

ok, so I guess I maybe was wrong about the U17, but not U19, 23 and Senior. Also possible I was right since who knows if the RC list is actually accurate. Also 2 from the U19, U23 and Senior were also in the U17!!

[Remomex]

Apparently Greenwich water club's M8 was the same lineup for U17, U19, U23 and Senior and the only reason they didn't win U23 was a boat stopping crab. Same matchup occurred in the Senior event and the result was Greenwich beating U23 winner by 9 seconds - racing against a bunch o college kids. There were two 8th graders in the boat... Better to have everyone racing at the same time so you can find this out...

Greenwich 8+ was definitely the class of the regatta, but before we jump to too extreme a conclusion, it's worth pointing out that the Mendota guys were racing in almost every single sweep event and doing 3+ 2k's a day with very short turnaround. Some of them had <25 minutes between the 8+ and the 4+ finals.

Not taking anything away from Greenwich, those kids rowed better than any other 8+, but let's also keep it all in context.

[scullerjonny]

Apparently Greenwich water club's M8 was the same lineup for U17, U19, U23 and Senior and the only reason they didn't win U23 was a boat stopping crab. Same matchup occurred in the Senior event and the result was Greenwich beating U23 winner by 9 seconds - racing against a bunch o college kids. There were two 8th graders in the boat... Better to have everyone racing at the same time so you can find this out...

Greenwich 8+ was definitely the class of the regatta, but before we jump to too extreme a conclusion, it's worth pointing out that the Mendota guys were racing in almost every single sweep event and doing 3+ 2k's a day with very short turnaround. Some of them had <25 minutes between the 8+ and the 4+ finals.

Not taking anything away from Greenwich, those kids rowed better than any other 8+, but let's also keep it all in context.

Yes, lets keep it in context. A bunch o juniors thrashed a bunch o fully grown men. You don't live that down by complaining "but I was tired"

[Mango]

Not enough attendance to justify the cost. The fixed costs for a regatta are huge, as are difficulties in finding an LOC willing to partner with USRowing and finding an open weekend in the schedule that works with elite rowing calendars (accounting for who's in camps, how close Canadian Henley is, how far away Senior Worlds and U23 Worlds are, scheduling of ODP/HP/JNT camps, etc.)

Cancelling racing is a painful decision. When things can turn bad quickly, evacuating a course full of rowers can't happen quickly enough. The LOC and chief referee collaborate on this decision and must err on the side of safety. Sometimes the weather predictions are wrong...but sometimes they're right.

It does seem difficult to make up for lost U17/U19 revenue at not-club nationals, but I wonder if shortening the regatta by 2-3 days would make up for it. Surely each regatta day incurs a large cost.

I agree with this. I understand the fear and reasoning to clear the course at the time. Hindsight is 20/20. Any idea on what (or if?) USRowing clears in GP at Clubs?

From just a pure "crowning a national champion" perspective, Juniors had their regatta a month prior. So I do not love it doing it again. But I do respect the fact that the NGB needs funds so there is some necessity. Would a "summer series" sort of like the junior regional qualifiers work? NE, Mid Atlantic, South East, West Coast, etc. work, be cost effective, and replace revenue?

I don't know if this is true, but it feels like there has been a little bit of the local regatta in favor of mega regatta or invites. But then we complain about regatta experience, etc. The community is becoming really reliant on the NGB. Outside of Canley, I don't think I have been to another regatta with free unlimited water in any heat. What happened to going to costco and grabbing a few cases for the team? If I go on USA hockey, there are a million USA Hockey affiliated tournaments across the country. 12 in the state of Massachusetts this month. If I look at the regatta calendar on USRowing it is basically 12 events this year across the country. Unsure how insuring a regatta works exactly, I would imagine that USRowing is affiliated with way more than that. But we have all been to a million local regattas that didn't have USRowing certified refs either. I think it is imperative for the sport and the NGB for clubs to start promoting and partnering more with USRowing in that way.

Ultimately, Is it the NGB's job to be hosting more events or enabling more more local regattas? I think USRowing is trying to do a little of both and they counteract each other at times.

Given the size of Juniors in the US, I think all Junior National Championships should have qualifiers hosted by USRowing. Get creative with a few events during the year, get Red Bull back involved, get creative with some beach sprint/coastal stuff. Maybe paired with standard rowing to try and tap into an exiting base rather than grow a new sport.

[Mango]

Apparently Greenwich water club's M8 was the same lineup for U17, U19, U23 and Senior and the only reason they didn't win U23 was a boat stopping crab. Same matchup occurred in the Senior event and the result was Greenwich beating U23 winner by 9 seconds - racing against a bunch o college kids. There were two 8th graders in the boat... Better to have everyone racing at the same time so you can find this out...

Greenwich 8+ was definitely the class of the regatta, but before we jump to too extreme a conclusion, it's worth pointing out that the Mendota guys were racing in almost every single sweep event and doing 3+ 2k's a day with very short turnaround. Some of them had <25 minutes between the 8+ and the 4+ finals.

Not taking anything away from Greenwich, those kids rowed better than any other 8+, but let's also keep it all in context.

Yes, lets keep it in context. A bunch o juniors thrashed a bunch o fully grown men. You don't live that down by complaining "but I was tired"

Agreed, nothing but kudos to Greenwich.

Mendota gets kudos though. There was a time not that long ago where you raced in the summer just to keep racing. You showed up and raced every event you could regardless of turnaround. I remember a year I raced at Welland (Ontario Champs) 11 times in a weekend. 7 Times on Sunday. It was awesome and terrible. I remember I had stroked a u23 LM4- and 2 races later stroked the Sr. M8+ in the same lane 2 races apart. Very confused stake boat holder. Mendota still does that, feels like a dying breed among clubs.

[rowing]

"Summer Nationals," if that name sticks, needs to be moved to later in the actual summer. By the f'king Julian calendar there were only 22 days of summer before racing started.

Athletes who just finished NCAA/IRA/Youths only had 4 weeks together. Greenwich just proved what longer time together does for a crew. Kaboom.

Canadian Henley has long since abdicated their former role as the late great summer regatta. At this point it's becoming glorified rowing tourism. USRowing needs to lay claim to the first week of August. Own it, my NJ brethren. Own it!

Besides, what could be better than arguing about who is fastest because Crew X went to US Nationals and Crew Y went to Canley? I see a North American military conflict seeded right there. We can also settle which bacon is best.

[rowing]

Not enough attendance to justify the cost. The fixed costs for a regatta are huge, as are difficulties in finding an LOC willing to partner with USRowing and finding an open weekend in the schedule that works with elite rowing calendars (accounting for who's in camps, how close Canadian Henley is, how far away Senior Worlds and U23 Worlds are, scheduling of ODP/HP/JNT camps, etc.)

Cancelling racing is a painful decision. When things can turn bad quickly, evacuating a course full of rowers can't happen quickly enough. The LOC and chief referee collaborate on this decision and must err on the side of safety. Sometimes the weather predictions are wrong...but sometimes they're right.

It does seem difficult to make up for lost U17/U19 revenue at not-club nationals, but I wonder if shortening the regatta by 2-3 days would make up for it. Surely each regatta day incurs a large cost.

I agree with this. I understand the fear and reasoning to clear the course at the time. Hindsight is 20/20. Any idea on what (or if?) USRowing clears in GP at Clubs?

From just a pure "crowning a national champion" perspective, Juniors had their regatta a month prior. So I do not love it doing it again. But I do respect the fact that the NGB needs funds so there is some necessity. Would a "summer series" sort of like the junior regional qualifiers work? NE, Mid Atlantic, South East, West Coast, etc. work, be cost effective, and replace revenue?

I don't know if this is true, but it feels like there has been a little bit of the local regatta in favor of mega regatta or invites. But then we complain about regatta experience, etc. The community is becoming really reliant on the NGB. Outside of Canley, I don't think I have been to another regatta with free unlimited water in any heat. What happened to going to costco and grabbing a few cases for the team? If I go on USA hockey, there are a million USA Hockey affiliated tournaments across the country. 12 in the state of Massachusetts this month. If I look at the regatta calendar on USRowing it is basically 12 events this year across the country. Unsure how insuring a regatta works exactly, I would imagine that USRowing is affiliated with way more than that. But we have all been to a million local regattas that didn't have USRowing certified refs either. I think it is imperative for the sport and the NGB for clubs to start promoting and partnering more with USRowing in that way.

Ultimately, Is it the NGB's job to be hosting more events or enabling more more local regattas? I think USRowing is trying to do a little of both and they counteract each other at times.

Given the size of Juniors in the US, I think all Junior National Championships should have qualifiers hosted by USRowing. Get creative with a few events during the year, get Red Bull back involved, get creative with some beach sprint/coastal stuff. Maybe paired with standard rowing to try and tap into an exiting base rather than grow a new sport.

Okay, Ima make this simple.

You need to stop with the "summer qualifiers" dry mindspunk. I don't know what country you think you live in, or what sport you think this is, but that just isn't a reality.

Stop planning more expenses when we can't even manage to get operating profit from the ragtag flotilla bouncing on the waters now. Seriously, it's like listening to a homeless bum talk about the Corvette he wants to buy and then trying to figure out where to built the separate garage for it, while debating which polymer finish on the floor would be ideal.

[lt.wolf]

You definitely did not make it simple ….a little less hyperbole and more English please .

[rowing]

You definitely did not make it simple ….a little less hyperbole and more English please .

Did I lose you between homeless bum and polymer finish???

[Mango]

Not enough attendance to justify the cost. The fixed costs for a regatta are huge, as are difficulties in finding an LOC willing to partner with USRowing and finding an open weekend in the schedule that works with elite rowing calendars (accounting for who's in camps, how close Canadian Henley is, how far away Senior Worlds and U23 Worlds are, scheduling of ODP/HP/JNT camps, etc.)

Cancelling racing is a painful decision. When things can turn bad quickly, evacuating a course full of rowers can't happen quickly enough. The LOC and chief referee collaborate on this decision and must err on the side of safety. Sometimes the weather predictions are wrong...but sometimes they're right.

It does seem difficult to make up for lost U17/U19 revenue at not-club nationals, but I wonder if shortening the regatta by 2-3 days would make up for it. Surely each regatta day incurs a large cost.

I agree with this. I understand the fear and reasoning to clear the course at the time. Hindsight is 20/20. Any idea on what (or if?) USRowing clears in GP at Clubs?

From just a pure "crowning a national champion" perspective, Juniors had their regatta a month prior. So I do not love it doing it again. But I do respect the fact that the NGB needs funds so there is some necessity. Would a "summer series" sort of like the junior regional qualifiers work? NE, Mid Atlantic, South East, West Coast, etc. work, be cost effective, and replace revenue?

I don't know if this is true, but it feels like there has been a little bit of the local regatta in favor of mega regatta or invites. But then we complain about regatta experience, etc. The community is becoming really reliant on the NGB. Outside of Canley, I don't think I have been to another regatta with free unlimited water in any heat. What happened to going to costco and grabbing a few cases for the team? If I go on USA hockey, there are a million USA Hockey affiliated tournaments across the country. 12 in the state of Massachusetts this month. If I look at the regatta calendar on USRowing it is basically 12 events this year across the country. Unsure how insuring a regatta works exactly, I would imagine that USRowing is affiliated with way more than that. But we have all been to a million local regattas that didn't have USRowing certified refs either. I think it is imperative for the sport and the NGB for clubs to start promoting and partnering more with USRowing in that way.

Ultimately, Is it the NGB's job to be hosting more events or enabling more more local regattas? I think USRowing is trying to do a little of both and they counteract each other at times.

Given the size of Juniors in the US, I think all Junior National Championships should have qualifiers hosted by USRowing. Get creative with a few events during the year, get Red Bull back involved, get creative with some beach sprint/coastal stuff. Maybe paired with standard rowing to try and tap into an exiting base rather than grow a new sport.

Okay, Ima make this simple.

You need to stop with the "summer qualifiers" dry mindspunk. I don't know what country you think you live in, or what sport you think this is, but that just isn't a reality.

Stop planning more expenses when we can't even manage to get operating profit from the ragtag flotilla bouncing on the waters now. Seriously, it's like listening to a homeless bum talk about the Corvette he wants to buy and then trying to figure out where to built the separate garage for it, while debating which polymer finish on the floor would be ideal.

Right, I sort of get that. But what I eluded to earlier in the post is what is USRowing trying to do with the regatta? What is their role as an NGB in regards to hosting regattas or regular regattas?

Is it trying to crown a National Championship and that's it? If so, qualifiers aren't a huge ask. (Even though I don't think juniors need two national championship a few weeks apart)

Is it to provide more racing opportunity for more clubs? Then hosting more organized regional regattas with more/better racing experience makes sense. Qualifier or not.

Are they hosting a second junior championship as a revenue draw? If so, hosting more opportunities creates more entries. It is also why I asked what the regatta clears? Can they replace that money with more regattas?

It seems the biggest complaint here is we aren't sure what we want, and USRowing is not sure what they are trying to provide exactly. People have said "we need the junior revenue" so how do we solve that problem? Otherwise we are all just beating our heads against the wall doing the same thing over and over. We don't even have to call it qualifiers. We don't even need a second junior national championship.