#LA2028 talent development... what if

[FullSend]

What age groups does world class start target? I got the impression it was like 12-15 or so. If that's correct (or close) that's a very impressionable age to be told "hey you're world class" which I would imagine helps a lot with getting athletes into it.

I would guess that has a better chance that trying to get collegiate walk ons who are more likely to just to "I'll join a frat, focus on school, etc"

[KitD]

It should be noted that the World Class Start program is not rowing-specific. It's aim is to match minor sports with promising athletes based on physical characteristics.

World Class Start is rowing specific in that it is GB Rowing's name for its program that is part of the overall UK Sport-funded talent ID programs.

World Class Start funds centres and coaches, not athletes.

Yes, apologies, I corrected the name. But I'm not sure it matters from the pov of this discussion who or what receives the funding.

[sandor]

What age groups does world class start target? I got the impression it was like 12-15 or so. If that's correct (or close) that's a very impressionable age to be told "hey you're world class" which I would imagine helps a lot with getting athletes into it.

I would guess that has a better chance that trying to get collegiate walk ons who are more likely to just to "I'll join a frat, focus on school, etc"

https://www.britishrowing.org/gb-rowing ... a$$-start/

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[ROWBOTTOM]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

[sandor]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

[Remomex]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

What do people consider a good ROI? If you took the same number of "random" kids, how many could we expect to make it? Obviously there's no RCT you can run to test this, but it seems to me the data (that I've seen) doesn't necessarily prove success. Is there more granular data?

[FullSend]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

What do people consider a good ROI? If you took the same number of "random" kids, how many could we expect to make it? Obviously there's no RCT you can run to test this, but it seems to me the data (that I've seen) doesn't necessarily prove success. Is there more granular data?

You could argue that 1 gold medalist is a good ROI. Flags fly forever and all that.

There's also the flip side that even if there are only 10 Olympians, how many others went on to row at University? U23s? Win HRR? You could argue those are all success cases.

Hell even just building awareness of rowing in general is a benefit.

[KitD]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

For completeness, there were also Alex Gregory, Kat Copeland, Anna Watkins, Mo Sbihi, Matt Gottrel who won gold in 2012 and/or 2016, plus other world and Olympic medallists.

[sandor]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

For completeness, there were also Alex Gregory, Kat Copeland, Anna Watkins, Mo Sbihi, Matt Gottrel who won gold in 2012 and/or 2016, plus other world and Olympic medallists.

Kit, were they part of Redgrave's "Sporting Giants" initiative?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19081992
https://www.uksport.gov.uk/news/2012/02 ... nniversary

[Sarge]

I think there is a strong correlation with age-group swimming and successful college rowers. I honestly think recruiting coordinators for rowing teams need to spend more time at state high school championship swim meets. There are a surprising number of high performing rowers with age group swimming backgrounds. My thought is this comes from years of cardio training and development of work ethic. There is a big difference between game sports and race sports. If someone has trained hard in the pool for high school swimming, rowing can be a god-send: day-light, ability to breathe (when you want), talk, look around (and actually be able to see), and engage other senses! You don't have to look too hard to see that correlation (Ollie Zeidler is a freak, so don't just stop there). Swimming also is really good at dis-abusing people of the notion that their kids could be the next Michael Phelps or Katie Ledecky and kids will be looking for that outlet in college.

Where does that leave the National Team? Maybe with a couple more of well-trained cardiovascular monsters that understand the subtleties in efficient movement and appreciate or thrive in the grind. You only need a few!

[Stewie Griffin Should Cox]

I think there is a strong correlation with age-group swimming and successful college rowers. I honestly think recruiting coordinators for rowing teams need to spend more time at state high school championship swim meets. There are a surprising number of high performing rowers with age group swimming backgrounds. My thought is this comes from years of cardio training and development of work ethic. There is a big difference between game sports and race sports. If someone has trained hard in the pool for high school swimming, rowing can be a god-send: day-light, ability to breathe (when you want), talk, look around (and actually be able to see), and engage other senses! You don't have to look too hard to see that correlation (Ollie Zeidler is a freak, so don't just stop there). Swimming also is really good at dis-abusing people of the notion that their kids could be the next Michael Phelps or Katie Ledecky and kids will be looking for that outlet in college.

Where does that leave the National Team? Maybe with a couple more of well-trained cardiovascular monsters that understand the subtleties in efficient movement and appreciate or thrive in the grind. You only need a few!

Swimming is also boring. Or at least to the team player. It’s still an individual sport. Put them in an eight with their buddies and it’s a different ball game. I agree the cross over from swimming to rowing is immediate. My wife was a swimmer until 16 when they closed her pool for 3 months renovation. She never went back and rowed GB Junior team at 18. Even at U23 and then full senior team she would do two 90 minute pool sessions a week for cross training.

I’ll confess to having a small plan. My two daughters are swimmers both AAU Olympics winners, 11 and 13 and 5.8 and 5.9 and half. Both are targeted over 6 ft. They have some tall buddies who are basketball players etc. Covid delayed things a d they have only been ergoing but this summer will be all about coastal rowing and sculling. We will try and get an eight to go down the HOTC. But we should have 8 kids who will end up between 5.10 and 6.2. I’m not gonna lie, a few College scholarships lie at the core of this.

Bottom line though, from my experience, girls in particular much prefer rowing to swimming due to the crew environment.

[KitD]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

For completeness, there were also Alex Gregory, Kat Copeland, Anna Watkins, Mo Sbihi, Matt Gottrel who won gold in 2012 and/or 2016, plus other world and Olympic medallists.

Kit, were they part of Redgrave's "Sporting Giants" initiative?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19081992
https://www.uksport.gov.uk/news/2012/02 ... nniversary

No, World Class Start. Taken from the 2nd link in the first post in this thread.

In fact, I forgot Heather Stanning too, Glover's partner in the W2-.

IMHO, World Class Start, and Sporting Giants, have been the most bang-per-buck recipients of rowing funding in GB.

[sandor]

Helen Glover was 21. Olympic gold at 25.

Sporting Giants (2007 talent ID scheme for handball, rowing, canoeing, volleyball)...

4,800 applied
3,854 eligible
10 made the 2012 GB Olympic team
Helen Glover won a medal (gold in the W2-)

I believe both Glover & Thornley applied at their mothers' behest.

For completeness, there were also Alex Gregory, Kat Copeland, Anna Watkins, Mo Sbihi, Matt Gottrel who won gold in 2012 and/or 2016, plus other world and Olympic medallists.

Kit, were they part of Redgrave's "Sporting Giants" initiative?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19081992
https://www.uksport.gov.uk/news/2012/02 ... nniversary

No, World Class Start. Taken from the 2nd link in the first post in this thread.

In fact, I forgot Heather Stanning too, Glover's partner in the W2-.

IMHO, World Class Start, and Sporting Giants, have been the most bang-per-buck recipients of rowing funding in GB.

That is what i thought (after reading about the two).

Meet the stature requirement, go through a round of testing.
See who is left standing.

Reading about Glover's athletic nature leading up to Sporting Giants, it makes sense why she came out on top - it wasnt luck.