Greg Ruckman, Teti, USRowing legal woes, cont...

[FullSend]

This looks like Teti's last Olympics as a USA coach.

I have a feeling you're not too far off here. What a dumpster fire that would create. At this point who does the US even get to be a true lead coach like Teti/Grobler? Callahan runs a big squad chock full of U23/National Team talent, and had big success with the U23s a couple years ago. But he's got a pretty good setup there. If I were him I wouldn't be interested in the cluster*** that is dealing with USRowing full time

Oh but he would be so good at it. He would build a culture and some serious depth on the team which is VERY NEEDED. The quad couldn't even beat a PennAC boat.

Oh I definitely agree. He certainly knows how to work with that caliber of athlete. UW is also one of the most open squads I can think of in terms of broadcasting everything (erg times, practice events, scrimmages) and if that carried over it would be a godsend to help build any interest is the National Team.

If the USRowing execs really are pushing Teti out (who as far as I know is well respected in the coaching community though I am literally going off of appearances), it is going to make it that much harder to attract a Callahan type when you know you might get punted out the door even when things are going well (by all accounts).

[Mango]

This looks like Teti's last Olympics as a USA coach.

I have a feeling you're not too far off here. What a dumpster fire that would create. At this point who does the US even get to be a true lead coach like Teti/Grobler? Callahan runs a big squad chock full of U23/National Team talent, and had big success with the U23s a couple years ago. But he's got a pretty good setup there. If I were him I wouldn't be interested in the cluster*** that is dealing with USRowing full time

Oh but he would be so good at it. He would build a culture and some serious depth on the team which is VERY NEEDED. The quad couldn't even beat a PennAC boat.

Oh I definitely agree. He certainly knows how to work with that caliber of athlete. UW is also one of the most open squads I can think of in terms of broadcasting everything (erg times, practice events, scrimmages) and if that carried over it would be a godsend to help build any interest is the National Team.

If the USRowing execs really are pushing Teti out (who as far as I know is well respected in the coaching community though I am literally going off of appearances), it is going to make it that much harder to attract a Callahan type when you know you might get punted out the door even when things are going well (by all accounts).

The whole "Teti is done" narrative is something that had not occurred to me. I guess it could be a thing. I am not sure we ever got any resolution on (Mike's response to) sexual assault at Cal other than Mike left 2 years later. I am not sure USRowing execs are trying to push Mike out the door. They might view it as something that has to be done and they do not want to be the ones to pull the trigger. For better or worse, I think Mike is about as bullet proof as coaches come in this sport, I would be surprised if USRowing wouldn't do what they could to protect him, not "push him out".

Right now there doesn't seem to be enough information to push that narrative much further than pure speculation. I wouldn't be totally blind sided if that this was the heart of the issue, but I would be pretty surprised.

It makes more sense that USRowing has had some issues with safesport between Tom and now Mike for whatever reasons. That would mean they have complaints about both of their head coaches. There seems to also be some issues with a few things on the financial side as well. USRowing is doing the right thing at the executive level, and that is to let a 3rd party run its course, then address/fix issues that they may find. If there are new complaints on the mens side, it makes sense for an attorney to see if there is a pattern with past occurrences with Ruckman, and Greg has never been shy when it comes to talking about it. I would guess they are just doing their due diligence.

What they find? I don't know.

[yeahbuddy]

Alternative hot take....2008 was the last Teti medal for USA men, and things were heading south, so he left. Smart Mike.

Whining and griping in the aftermath, resistance to change under McLaren, failure to pre-qualify the 8+ in 2010/2011, so Teti was begged to babysit the 8+ for 2012, which finished out of the medals because they got the result they trained for.

The McLaren 4- nabbed a bronze in 2012. Last prize earned at a big dance.

2013-2016 was WTF. 2017 to now is untested.

There's a lot of f'ing pieces missing before you can stroke up a legend. Good is bad. Bad is good. SMFH.

[sab]

2013-2016 was WTF. 2017 to now is untested.

Hotter Take?

Looking back at results, there were more medals between '13-'16 on under Luke and Bryan than so far under Teti since '17. The results in the 8 have been very similar between the two cycles, medal in the first World Champs a year after the Oly, then 4th and 5th place finishes since. But there have been no medals at all in the 4 this go around.

We are going off of Teti's record from '04 and '08, and trusting he will pull it off in the year where it really counts but no evidence so far that he will. But there is only so much he can do in 4 years.

[yeahbuddy]

2013-2016 was WTF. 2017 to now is untested.

Hotter Take?

Looking back at results, there were more medals between '13-'16 on under Luke and Bryan than so far under Teti since '17. The results in the 8 have been very similar between the two cycles, medal in the first World Champs a year after the Oly, then 4th and 5th place finishes since. But there have been no medals at all in the 4 this go around.

We are going off of Teti's record from '04 and '08, and trusting he will pull it off in the year where it really counts but no evidence so far that he will. But there is only so much he can do in 4 years.

Hottest take....How many Olympic medals in 2016?

That is the measuring stick for funding negotiations with USOC.

[Mango]

2013-2016 was WTF. 2017 to now is untested.

Hotter Take?

Looking back at results, there were more medals between '13-'16 on under Luke and Bryan than so far under Teti since '17. The results in the 8 have been very similar between the two cycles, medal in the first World Champs a year after the Oly, then 4th and 5th place finishes since. But there have been no medals at all in the 4 this go around.

We are going off of Teti's record from '04 and '08, and trusting he will pull it off in the year where it really counts but no evidence so far that he will. But there is only so much he can do in 4 years.

The longer I am around the more I forget. But didn’t Mike coach the 8 in 2000 as well? Or was that Korzo? I get 96/2000 mixed up sometimes. They underperformed at the Olympics but won 3 world championships in that stretch. It was a good run from 97-2008.

[sab]

It was Teti in 2000. He does have a good record and seems to be a good coach. But this cycles results are similar so far to 13-16 which is concerning. As pointed, out as long as there are Olympic medals at the end Worlds results don’t matter and Teti is the best choice to deliver.

[FullSend]

I could very well be wrong, but the Training Center in general seems a lot more together under Teti than it was in 14-16 when athletes were leaving/pushed what seemed like every year (Pez off the top of my head, but I remember their being others) where this cycle seems like there's virtually none of that.

The cupboard seemed pretty bare in '17 relative to '13. That would indicate these are similar results in the 8 from a worse starting place. Romania on the comeup also seems to add one more big competitor compared to last quad. Maybe I'm way off base and that's all feelingsball.

I don't necessarily think Teti is the GOAT, but anyone else leading the National Team in my lifetime has been pretty much nothing, and I don't see anyone else out there who I think would take the job that is going to do better. Not to mention it would be great to keep consistency for two quadrennials in a row.

All that said, if there are legit safe sport issues and not just "he cut me and said I wasn't as good at rowing as other people" then see ya later.

[yeahbuddy]

https://web.archive.org/web/20080202090 ... ility.com/

Too bad the links are not archived. I remember this being a paper shoes and gown picnic.

[Mango]

I could very well be wrong, but the Training Center in general seems a lot more together under Teti than it was in 14-16 when athletes were leaving/pushed what seemed like every year (Pez off the top of my head, but I remember their being others) where this cycle seems like there's virtually none of that.

The cupboard seemed pretty bare in '17 relative to '13. That would indicate these are similar results in the 8 from a worse starting place. Romania on the comeup also seems to add one more big competitor compared to last quad. Maybe I'm way off base and that's all feelingsball.

I don't necessarily think Teti is the GOAT, but anyone else leading the National Team in my lifetime has been pretty much nothing, and I don't see anyone else out there who I think would take the job that is going to do better. Not to mention it would be great to keep consistency for two quadrennials in a row.

All that said, if there are legit safe sport issues and not just "he cut me and said I wasn't as good at rowing as other people" then see ya later.

Sitting with it, this is a good move from USRowing to let the powers that be/an outside agency work at digging this out. There have been other issues with a satellite camp affiliated with USRowing that was sort of swept under the rug.

The more I think about that, the more this seems like a systemic investigation of USRowing. Ruckman is just a single source wi the a story, but not the perpetrator. USRowing is doing the right thing and letting an outside agency manage this, especially with a new CEO.

[sandor]

this thread got me interested in reading past arbitration/hearings involving USRowing/USRA

https://www.teamusa.org/Footer/Legal/Ar ... /Section-9

First one i read was '88 with regards to M4x selection.

Interesting that one of the 4 that left the first camp early, Greg Monstesi, (but not one of the 2 that filed a grievance) ended up making the Olympic 4x.


...19 more documents to read from the past 33 years...


How involved was Teti with selecting the 1996 LM4- ?
The camps were combined in Princeton, right?

[crewu]

This is one of my favorite cases to read. And remarkably USRowing was one the right side of history on this one.
https://www.teamusa.org/-/media/TeamUSA ... A6645D71F2
A good reminder to get written selection policies out early and stick to them.

[fullmetal]

Verbal promises, easily made, are easily broken.