2021 Season

[str8four]

On a separate thread Lt Wolf suggested that the UW Women might be top 15 on the mens side in this depleted year. I disagree. I also think there could be a few high school or junior crews that are faster than the UW Women. So leaving out 2Vs and going with the top shells from each boathouse I would rank em this way as of May 3rd:

1. UW
2. Cal
3. Princeton - slightly faster than Cuse again same competition
4. Syracuse
5. NU
6. Wisco
7. BU
8. Navy
9. Stanford
10. GWU
11. Temple
12. Penn Lights
13. Navy Lights
14. Drexel
15. Trinity
16. OSU
17. Penn
18. Williams
19. Holy Cross
20. St Joes Prep High School

Others: Colgate, Marietta, Marist, UW Women, Jax, Temple Lt., SJU, USD, UCSD

Not Racing in 2021: Yale, Harvard, Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Columbia, MIT

[lt.wolf]

Lol , I want to see UW varsity women against St Joe’s prep

[eightsaresuperior]

Lol , I want to see UW varsity women against St Joe’s prep

UW women all day long on that one

[gamestop]

20. St Joes Prep High School

The eye roll emoji doesn’t do this justice. Please. No need to inflate the egos of prep kids any further.

[eightsaresuperior]

20. St Joes Prep High School

The eye roll emoji doesn’t do this justice. Please. No need to inflate the egos of prep kids any further.

Exactly! Would be fun to watch their faces after losing by open water to a women's 8

[ltwt1x]

Lol , I want to see UW varsity women against St Joe’s prep

UW women all day long on that one

The Prep recently went 5:51 at Mercer which is a FISA course. That is faster than the W8+ world record. It would be a blowout. I don't know how you guys could come to this conclusion? Too much virtue signaling.

[asdad123]

I don't know how clear cut it is either.

If 46 seconds is a true margin between UW men and women (which is more than its been in years past, so other factors might have been at play), that puts the speed around maybe a steady but not great ACRA crew right?

Colgate and Drexel were 1 and 2 at Vails in 2019, 25 seconds behind UW at IRAs. Add another 20 seconds to those teams and you're looking at dad vail C or D finalist teams, which SJP probably might be fine contending with.

Charles and Hooch have youth and champ 8s on the same day within an hour of each other, and old results support the youth boats being able to keep up with average club teams and solid women's teams even if the times can't be compared directly.

So I don't think it's so far fetched that they could keep up. That said, I think the 46 seconds is a big assumption that might not be true. The women are probably normally a bit closer than that.

Also the tailwind at Mercer always makes for quick times. What would the SJP erg average look like?

[andpaddle]

Estimating between 31-34 varsity eights entering IRAs

Wolf - any insight on who the 5-8 teams beyond the 26 on the preliminary list may be? The ivies are the only obvious missing ones, and so far only Penn and Princeton are racing at all, right?

[socalstroke]

Estimating between 31-34 varsity eights entering IRAs

Wolf - any insight on who the 5-8 teams beyond the 26 on the preliminary list may be? The ivies are the only obvious missing ones, and so far only Penn and Princeton are racing at all, right?

Brown men raced HC. Brown women have raced in Boston a couple times including today and are scheduled to go to NCAAs if selected.
HC scheduled to scrimmage Dartmouth on Sat.
cornell on the water in ithaca at least.

wonder if the NESCAC winner will head to the IRA?

[str8four]

The Prep recently went 5:51 at Mercer which is a FISA course. That is faster than the W8+ world record. It would be a blowout. I don't know how you guys could come to this conclusion? Too much virtue signaling.

I agree that there is too much PC virtue signaling with the idea that the top junior boats would lose to the top women's NCAA boats. I understand that there will be hate because it is Prep, so substitute Row America Rye, Oakland Strokes, Sarasota, St. Paul's, or Montclair for Prep, and then come back to reality.

For reference the top junior boats can and do take pieces off of the top Collegiate Lightweight 8's. I have been at practices and watched this happen. If you look at the results of the Pac 12's 2017 - 2019 you will see that the winning women's V8 is about 10s faster than the V4 for the men. That V4 is the 5th varsity guys (#33 - 36 on the team) after you boat a 1V, 2V, 3V and F8. Back 15 - 20 years ago when there was no 3V event and the V4 was #25 - 28 on the team (after the 1V, 2V and F8), you'd consistently see comparable speed between that V4 and the top women's college eights.

Do people on these boards really think that the elite junior 8's (the boats that medal at USRowing youth nationals and make the semis at Henley or better) are not faster than a V4 made-up of #25 - #28 at UW, Cal, Brown, Harvard, etc? Just look at championship times over 2,000 meters. NCAA winning times in varied conditions (tailwind, flat and headwind) over the last 3 years ranged from 6:06 to 6:36. USRowing Youth nationals winning times for the top boys 8s (also in varying conditions) have been 5:45 to 6:05. The high school boys would beat the college women by 12 - 20s EVERY YEAR.

Maybe Prep isn't elite this year (results thus far suggest they are) and maybe UW women are in their own league this year compared to every other women's collegiate 8 that has ever rowed (seems like a bit much, but maybe). Based on common sense and plenty of history, I 'd still be taking Prep by open water (at least 5 - 7s).

[sandor]

The Prep recently went 5:51 at Mercer which is a FISA course. That is faster than the W8+ world record. It would be a blowout. I don't know how you guys could come to this conclusion? Too much virtue signaling.

I agree that there is too much PC virtue signaling with the idea that the top junior boats would lose to the top women's NCAA boats. I understand that there will be hate because it is Prep, so substitute Row America Rye, Oakland Strokes, Sarasota, St. Paul's, or Montclair for Prep, and then come back to reality.

For reference the top junior boats can and do take pieces off of the top Collegiate Lightweight 8's. I have been at practices and watched this happen. If you look at the results of the Pac 12's 2017 - 2019 you will see that the winning women's V8 is about 10s faster than the V4 for the men. That V4 is the 5th varsity guys (#33 - 36 on the team) after you boat a 1V, 2V, 3V and F8. Back 15 - 20 years ago when there was no 3V event and the V4 was #25 - 28 on the team (after the 1V, 2V and F8), you'd consistently see comparable speed between that V4 and the top women's college eights.

Do people on these boards really think that the elite junior 8's (the boats that medal at USRowing youth nationals and make the semis at Henley or better) are not faster than a V4 made-up of #25 - #28 at UW, Cal, Brown, Harvard, etc? Just look at championship times over 2,000 meters. NCAA winning times in varied conditions (tailwind, flat and headwind) over the last 3 years ranged from 6:06 to 6:36. USRowing Youth nationals winning times for the top boys 8s (also in varying conditions) have been 5:45 to 6:05. The high school boys would beat the college women by 12 - 20s EVERY YEAR.

Maybe Prep isn't elite this year (results thus far suggest they are) and maybe UW women are in their own league this year compared to every other women's collegiate 8 that has ever rowed (seems like a bit much, but maybe). Based on common sense and plenty of history, I 'd still be taking Prep by open water (at least 5 - 7s).

So then what we really want to see is Temple / Penn heavies / Drexel / Penn lights / St Joes / St Joes Prep

the buoy lines were up on the Schuylkill this AM....

[lt.wolf]

It’s unfortunate the UW women and the coaching staff ( and all women’s rowing ) don’t get enough credit.

[sandor]

It’s unfortunate the UW women and the coaching staff ( and all women’s rowing ) don’t get enough credit.

The world's best time for the W8+ is 5:55
The world's best time for the JM8+ is 5:35

The world's best time for the JW8+ is 6:13


I don't think it has anything to do with credit, simply the reality of speed in boat classes.

[str8four]

It’s unfortunate the UW women and the coaching staff ( and all women’s rowing ) don’t get enough credit.

I don't think it has anything to do with credit, simply the reality of speed in boat classes.

+1

So then what we really want to see is Temple / Penn heavies / Drexel / Penn lights / St Joes / St Joes Prep

That would be an interesting race this year and my guess is that Prep has done pieces with at least Temple and Penn Lights as both their coaches (Perkins and Farrell) are Prep grads.

[ltwt1x]

It’s unfortunate the UW women and the coaching staff ( and all women’s rowing ) don’t get enough credit.

Please place your logic on reals and not feels. It is all so tiresome. Nobody is discrediting UW Women or Women's rowing. The reality is they would lose to many mediocre College Crews as well as many Junior Crews not just Prep. They just went 6:28 vs 5:42 for the men at Windermere how much faster do you think they can go? I don't see them going much faster than 6:15 in very fast conditions which is slow for any decent high school boys crew in fast conditions.

Prep on the other hand could possibly upset a few College teams in Philly under the current circumstances with Covid.