aluminum wing rigger and backstays

[zrow]

I am pondering pros and cons of using Sykes sculling wing riggers without back stays.
The boat is a double and will be mostly used by a masters crew.
The main concern is of course whether the riggers are strong enough to withstand the torque.
I can anticipate an obvious question: why would not you just use the backstays?
1. a little less weight to move during races
2. the riggers have quick release system and we cartop to every workout. So it is a bit easier to transport and faster to put the riggers on without the back stays.

Any input based on practical experience would be greatly appreciated.
( I hope Australians frequent this forum. They do know their Sykes )

Thank you all

[Minetti]

3. less wind resistance

[KitD]

4. In the event of a collision, serious injury is far less likely with backstays than without.

[zrow]

Hmmm, KitD,
I never thought of the safety aspect.
perhaps because our other boats are Van Dusens and do not have backstays.
One has Carl Douglas riggers. Nobody wants to collide with those

[Nosmo]

4. In the event of a collision, serious injury is far less likely with backstays than without.

4a. In the event of capsizing in cold water, risk of drowning is much greater with backstays which make it much more difficult to get in to the boat.

[zrow]

well, safety is important, but the main concern was whether the riggers are strong enough to be used without backstays and not flex or even break.
I was hoping to hear from someone who has experience of rowing Sykes singles or doubles or even from the company folks.
For example I know that our CD AeroWing riggers are rock solid and adding backstays to them would be quite meaningless.

[sandor]

well, safety is important, but the main concern was whether the riggers are strong enough to be used without backstays and not flex or even break.
I was hoping to hear from someone who has experience of rowing Sykes singles or doubles or even from the company folks.
For example I know that our CD AeroWing riggers are rock solid and adding backstays to them would be quite meaningless.

did you contact Sykes?

https://www.sykes.com.au/pages/contact-us

[Slim]

My suggestion would be to row with the back stays mounted on only one side of the boat. If the boat goes straight, and both hands feel the same, you should be fine to row without them.

[Dana Vesloppi]

Backstays are not to prevent wing or rigger from twisting. They are designed to keep the pin from deflecting, which would effectively change the pitch every stroke.

[LakeGator]

Backstays are not to prevent wing or rigger from twisting. They are designed to keep the pin from deflecting, which would effectively change the pitch every stroke.

I am not sure this is correct. A few months ago, I cracked the wing on my Kaschper single and when I ordered a replacement Jakob strongly suggested that I add forestays to reduce the stress on the wing.

I am guessing that a boat builder knows about structures and forces.

[bloomp]

Backstays are not to prevent wing or rigger from twisting. They are designed to keep the pin from deflecting, which would effectively change the pitch every stroke.

I am not sure this is correct. A few months ago, I cracked the wing on my Kaschper single and when I ordered a replacement Jakob strongly suggested that I add forestays to reduce the stress on the wing.

I am guessing that a boat builder knows about structures and forces.

Well yeah that’s because it’s a Kaschper. Notoriously bad product there. Jakob is telling you that to cover for how terrible his rigger is.

Until you get to a certain level of force, which most rowers will never achieve, a backstay in a 1x is unnecessary. Unless you’re in a very low tier brand - Swift, Kaschper, Kanghua- and then I would recommend a backstay to make sure you aren’t straining the welds too much.

[sandor]

ill point back up to this:

http://rowingillustrated.com/boards/vie ... 71#p137347

[zrow]

did you contact Sykes?
https://www.sykes.com.au/pages/contact-us

Sandor, thank you for an excellent advice. I did, and they replied that it is OK with sculling riggers.
That gives me needed peace of mind. I will try it for awhile and feel it out.
I was perhaps overly cautious, because I had had a single with a wing rigger pealing off a few kilometers downriver from my club, in November (close to freezing temperature). I was drifting helplessly, balancing the boat with one oar, contemplating taking a swim towards the shore.
Lucky for me there happened to be a sculler on the river who helped me...
I must notice, that the Sykes rigger design is different. The welding line goes diagonally at the points of the "arm" attachment. "intuitively" a lot better design...

I also like the idea of trying one side with backstays and one without. Will definitely try and report.
Thank you all.

[sandor]

did you contact Sykes?
https://www.sykes.com.au/pages/contact-us

Sandor, thank you for an excellent advice. I did, and they replied that it is OK with sculling riggers.
That gives me needed peace of mind. I will try it for awhile and feel it out.
I was perhaps overly cautious, because I had had a single with a wing rigger pealing off a few kilometers downriver from my club, in November (close to freezing temperature). I was drifting helplessly, balancing the boat with one oar, contemplating taking a swim towards the shore.
Lucky for me there happened to be a sculler on the river who helped me...
I must notice, that the Sykes rigger design is different. The welding line goes diagonally at the points of the "arm" attachment. "intuitively" a lot better design...

I also like the idea of trying one side with backstays and one without. Will definitely try and report.
Thank you all.

good to hear!

i had a similar experience, though with an oar shaft snapping mid-row.
i was literally hand-paddling my single back towards the boathouse, luckily only about 2 km, but hectic nonetheless.

[mightyquinn]

I am pondering pros and cons of using Sykes sculling wing riggers without back stays.
The boat is a double and will be mostly used by a masters crew.
The main concern is of course whether the riggers are strong enough to withstand the torque.
I can anticipate an obvious question: why would not you just use the backstays?
1. a little less weight to move during races
2. the riggers have quick release system and we cartop to every workout. So it is a bit easier to transport and faster to put the riggers on without the back stays.

Any input based on practical experience would be greatly appreciated.
( I hope Australians frequent this forum. They do know their Sykes )

Thank you all

In 2012-13 I rowed a Sykes 1x QR Aluminum Wing opting not to use the back stays. Sykes (otherwise excellent) owners manual says not necessary for a 1x but recommended for a 2x. FWIW, was getting video coaching from Xeno at the time who advised that I use the backstays. I was doing lots of bungee rowing training at the time, so pulling hard at low rating, and the weld failed on one side. See pic attached. I had also noticed pitch change during racing starts prior to the rigger failing. All in all, I’d recommend strongly using backstays unless they’ve changed the rigger design. All in all, though, I loved the Sykes 1x. Tom, the US rep was great, and I wish I still had that 1x.