RowAmerica

[fullmetal]

Looks like a RowAmerica - Rye boat needed rescuing from first responders:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/04/19/ ... and-sound/

What's interesting is that this is the second such rescue in three years--that's more frequent than any other well-run club I've known. And where were the coaches? Who's running the show over there? Could have been a Northwestern tragedy if anyone had gone overboard. You can bet that the first responders weren't able to get there immediately, so that situation was long in the making (who called the first responders?)...

[petermech]

Looking at a map it may be a difficult place to have good water at to row on. I have not rowed there but if they have a wind shift looks like the waves can funnel into the harbor.

[fullmetal]

I wonder if RA-Rye took over an older boat club's location/building.

In any case, I think if the first responders have to be called, then the coaches didn't exercise due diligence. They should be checking the weather, tide, etc. before heading out.

[DudleyP]

and students, are we talking high school or Uni?
Most clubs now sign waivers for adults but a waiver signed by a parent on behalf of a minor is not worth the paper it's written on in defence if the club is held to be negligent. For minors you have a duty of care which has to be exercised, we all understand that things can go wrong and the risk assessment / duty of care procedures in a club are there to ensure that when they do go wrong the consequences are more likely to be minor.

[petermech]

and students, are we talking high school or Uni?
Most clubs now sign waivers for adults but a waiver signed by a parent on behalf of a minor is not worth the paper it's written on in defence if the club is held to be negligent. For minors you have a duty of care which has to be exercised, we all understand that things can go wrong and the risk assessment / duty of care procedures in a club are there to ensure that when they do go wrong the consequences are more likely to be minor.

High school age. A year or so ago I did talk to a rower from there. My recall is that he said they lose of days on the water to bad water.
In the US I hear more about adults suing then minors in relation to rowing.

[fullmetal]

That's a bad situation. I would not advocate trying to grow a boathouse on a bad body of water. But if you're going to do it, your dedication to safety has to be impeccable and above reproach. Parents are trusting their kids' lives in your hands.

[Cowbells123]

I've always wondered how common is it to have a swim test before a rower is allowed to join a program? I've witnessed programs that do not use swim tests.

[GettingFaster]

I've trained with 4 programs, 2 junior clubs, one high school, one college. Both junior clubs required it, one was done in house, one you had to get a form signed by a lifeguard that affirmed you'd done it. The high school did some years, didn't others, and only for novices. College did not AFAIK, but the walk-ons may have since we had limited interaction with them in the fall, especially the first 2 weeks.

[socalstroke]

I've always wondered how common is it to have a swim test before a rower is allowed to join a program? I've witnessed programs that do not use swim tests.

Unless you as a coach are going to personally impose a rigorous standard, swim tests are pretty much worthless and serve little more than a check box on some admin's insurance paperwork. If you practice on a dynamic body of water in foul weather, why would you rely on a test that 1) has very lax requirements 2) takes place in a static, heated pool, 3) is often administered by someone with little more training/experience than a 2 hour CPR/AED class? I used to work in EMS and whenever there was a drowning at the beach, the family/friends would almost always claim that the victim was an strong swimmer. In my head my response was always, compared to what? An open water swimmer or your next door neighbor who makes it down to the ocean twice a year? It's usually the latter.

[bloomp]

I've always wondered how common is it to have a swim test before a rower is allowed to join a program? I've witnessed programs that do not use swim tests.

Unless you as a coach are going to personally impose a rigorous standard, swim tests are pretty much worthless and serve little more than a check box on some admin's insurance paperwork. If you practice on a dynamic body of water in foul weather, why would you rely on a test that 1) has very lax requirements 2) takes place in a static, heated pool, 3) is often administered by someone with little more training/experience than a 2 hour CPR/AED class? I used to work in EMS and whenever there was a drowning at the beach, the family/friends would almost always claim that the victim was an strong swimmer. In my head my response was always, compared to what? An open water swimmer or your next door neighbor who makes it down to the ocean twice a year? It's usually the latter.

Swim tests, even with a basic standard, do a few crucial things.

1) the coach immediately can see who can or cannot swim,
2) the coach is able to observe weak swimmers or those uncomfortable fully submerged,
3) basic skills like putting on a PFD while in the water and floating/treading can be practiced.

You do not need to be a strong swimmer or pass a rigorous 500m swim test for the swim test to be a valid requirement. Rowers shouldn't be leaving their shell in the first place, so the ability to swim strongly in open water is irrelevant.

Finally, the coaching staff are the most relevant and crucial people for swim test implementation. They need to observe the abilities of their athletes.

A swim test should be a mandate for USRowing member organizations, or at least USRowing individual members. End of story.

[Long'n Strong]

Rowers shouldn't be leaving their shell in the first place, so the ability to swim strongly in open water is irrelevant.

Even if that shell is about to be swept over a weir or through a sluice? What about if a large container ship is headed directly for the flipped shell?

Be very careful about making declarative statements that could make a dangerous situation a tragic one.

[socalstroke]

Swim tests, even with a basic standard, do a few crucial things.

1) the coach immediately can see who can or cannot swim,
2) the coach is able to observe weak swimmers or those uncomfortable fully submerged,
3) basic skills like putting on a PFD while in the water and floating/treading can be practiced.

You do not need to be a strong swimmer or pass a rigorous 500m swim test for the swim test to be a valid requirement. Rowers shouldn't be leaving their shell in the first place, so the ability to swim strongly in open water is irrelevant.

Finally, the coaching staff are the most relevant and crucial people for swim test implementation. They need to observe the abilities of their athletes.

A swim test should be a mandate for USRowing member organizations, or at least USRowing individual members. End of story.

I agree coaches should implement testing themselves, but the procedure should be a bit more rigorous than treading water and a ridiculous time standard that a 10 year old can make with a crappy stroke. I know from experience that your list leads to a false sense of security and injury/death because it's not apples to apples or under duress.

[bloomp]

Rowers shouldn't be leaving their shell in the first place, so the ability to swim strongly in open water is irrelevant.

Even if that shell is about to be swept over a weir or through a sluice? What about if a large container ship is headed directly for the flipped shell?

Be very careful about making declarative statements that could make a dangerous situation a tragic one.

Oh wow, because a strong open water swimmer would be able to escape such a current or pull.

Someone's ability to swim is not going to be the determining factor if they survive those situations, much less many other cold/rough-water immersion situations. If you are in Philly or Lowell and flip near enough to a dam that the major concern is going over the dam, you goofed (or the people marking/educating about hazards goofed) before you ended up in the water.

And considering the following topic (that I didn't feel I needed to broach, because I'm not encouraging changes to it) is that a non/weak-swimmer can still row but should wear a PFD. In that case, your ability to move around and possibly escape the odd tugboat & barge plowing your way is greatly improved. And last I checked, more deaths occurred due to people leaving their equipment and thinking they could "make the swim" when they really couldn't.

So you propose we put someone through 40 minutes of SS in variable conditions in a single, then flip them and see if they can swim the 200? 400? 800? Or more meters to shore? Cool! Your rower swam 600m in a pool, now have them swim 50m after inhaling water after flipping into frigid water. I'd rather focus on the reality of how the boat floats, and except in some insane scenarios you are always better off sticking with it.

Look, I have over a decade of swim instruction and life guarding. I have done 2-3 mile open water swims, both on the ocean and inland. That's great - not everyone can take the time to master swimming. Not everyone is capable of strong open water swimming. Not everyone is comfortable enough in the water to even attempt swimming great distances. Strong open water swimming is not necessary to safely engage in rowing. Wearing a PFD (in the case of non-swimmers), staying with your boat, treading/floating and the ability to put on a PFD in the water are much more valuable skills when it comes to the issues rowers face. And the definition of open water for someone inland is going to be very unique from someone on either coast, or on a Great Lake, etc.

Finally, if strong swimming is going to be a pre-requisite to adults picking up our sport GOOD LUCK because in all my years of coaching rowing and teaching (whether in the classroom or with swimming), I have never seen anything more difficult than working through an adult's fear of the water and even developing basic competencies. Make it a requirement that they can float and tread and put on a PFD without thrashing themselves into a panic. If they can't, they wear a PFD while rowing until they learn the basics.

[socalstroke]

glad to see we are in agreement, even if it required some roundabout argument. Should a scenario unfold in something other than still water, swim tests, while better than nothing, are of little practical value.

[bloomp]

glad to see we are in agreement, even if it required some roundabout argument. Should a scenario unfold in something other than still water, swim tests, while better than nothing, are of little practical value.

Fair enough. I will rename my "swim test" to be a "water tolerance test".