Anyone using or ordering (correction) NK Empower Oarlock?

[samtaylor]

I haven't used any of these products yet but am familiar with using a powermeter from cycling and have done a medium amount of research into how the data can be used. I have to say, so far, that all the offerings in rowing so far are falling down in the area of logging, display, and data analysis- which is one of the most powerful tools a powermeter can offer. I gather from the NK site that there hope is to offer this eventually but the current download system- the "Link" software- is so bare bones as to be almost embarrassing in context to what's out there. I do think the ability to provide direct feedback to crew athletes through an individual display has a tremendous amount to offer for immediate feedback, both technical and physical, but it's only unlocking a fraction of what's out there.

Software such as WKO by TrainingPeaks can completely change the way you train, analyze volume and intensity, program workouts, and the like. What you're seeing in cycling (especially professional cycling, where there's a significant amount of money at play) is that powermeters have almost completely eclipsed the use of lactate, heart rate, or any other training methodology. I know some national team programs are already using TrainingPeaks with HR data, but power can take it to an entirely different level.

The thing is, from looking at it I think NK has the right measuring system- an Oarlock is self contained, easy to set up, swap between boats etc. What I'd like to see is a crew data logger (that you can attach to the boat and will record data from an outing for 2, 4, or 8 oarlocks) and broadcast system. Then a receive unit for coaching launches that can plug into a tablet displaying all the oarlocks to the coach. And finally robust data analysis software for after practice, calculating training loads, etc. I think a setup like that could be a significant game changer for coaches- although it's going to take time for rowing coaches (not always the earliest of adopters) to adjust to the flood of new information and learn to use it well. In cycling it was about a ~10-12 year curve. But those who went with it ended up doing much, much better then those who didn't.

For an idea of what I'm talking about in terms of training metrics, read through this: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/ma ... g-tsb.html

Sam

[sandor]

I haven't used any of these products yet but am familiar with using a powermeter from cycling and have done a medium amount of research into how the data can be used. I have to say, so far, that all the offerings in rowing so far are falling down in the area of logging, display, and data analysis- which is one of the most powerful tools a powermeter can offer. I gather from the NK site that there hope is to offer this eventually but the current download system- the "Link" software- is so bare bones as to be almost embarrassing in context to what's out there. I do think the ability to provide direct feedback to crew athletes through an individual display has a tremendous amount to offer for immediate feedback, both technical and physical, but it's only unlocking a fraction of what's out there.

Software such as WKO by TrainingPeaks can completely change the way you train, analyze volume and intensity, program workouts, and the like. What you're seeing in cycling (especially professional cycling, where there's a significant amount of money at play) is that powermeters have almost completely eclipsed the use of lactate, heart rate, or any other training methodology. I know some national team programs are already using TrainingPeaks with HR data, but power can take it to an entirely different level.

The thing is, from looking at it I think NK has the right measuring system- an Oarlock is self contained, easy to set up, swap between boats etc. What I'd like to see is a crew data logger (that you can attach to the boat and will record data from an outing for 2, 4, or 8 oarlocks) and broadcast system. Then a receive unit for coaching launches that can plug into a tablet displaying all the oarlocks to the coach. And finally robust data analysis software for after practice, calculating training loads, etc. I think a setup like that could be a significant game changer for coaches- although it's going to take time for rowing coaches (not always the earliest of adopters) to adjust to the flood of new information and learn to use it well. In cycling it was about a ~10-12 year curve. But those who went with it ended up doing much, much better then those who didn't.

For an idea of what I'm talking about in terms of training metrics, read through this: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/ma ... g-tsb.html

Sam

+1

[Stelph]

I haven't used any of these products yet but am familiar with using a powermeter from cycling and have done a medium amount of research into how the data can be used. I have to say, so far, that all the offerings in rowing so far are falling down in the area of logging, display, and data analysis- which is one of the most powerful tools a powermeter can offer. I gather from the NK site that there hope is to offer this eventually but the current download system- the "Link" software- is so bare bones as to be almost embarrassing in context to what's out there. I do think the ability to provide direct feedback to crew athletes through an individual display has a tremendous amount to offer for immediate feedback, both technical and physical, but it's only unlocking a fraction of what's out there.

Software such as WKO by TrainingPeaks can completely change the way you train, analyze volume and intensity, program workouts, and the like. What you're seeing in cycling (especially professional cycling, where there's a significant amount of money at play) is that powermeters have almost completely eclipsed the use of lactate, heart rate, or any other training methodology. I know some national team programs are already using TrainingPeaks with HR data, but power can take it to an entirely different level.

The thing is, from looking at it I think NK has the right measuring system- an Oarlock is self contained, easy to set up, swap between boats etc. What I'd like to see is a crew data logger (that you can attach to the boat and will record data from an outing for 2, 4, or 8 oarlocks) and broadcast system. Then a receive unit for coaching launches that can plug into a tablet displaying all the oarlocks to the coach. And finally robust data analysis software for after practice, calculating training loads, etc. I think a setup like that could be a significant game changer for coaches- although it's going to take time for rowing coaches (not always the earliest of adopters) to adjust to the flood of new information and learn to use it well. In cycling it was about a ~10-12 year curve. But those who went with it ended up doing much, much better then those who didn't.

For an idea of what I'm talking about in terms of training metrics, read through this: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/ma ... g-tsb.html

Sam

Agree, the hardware system you describe is actually what oar inspired has pencilled in, and it's what smartoar currently does with the coaching tablet, tho the fact the tablet is so expensive means it hasn't really taken off

The analysis side is slightly more tricky, I know some have looked into trying goldern cheeter although that's more analysis and not so much training loads - I think the Rowe.rs service is the best candidate for the analysis and workload setting - here's some case studies of their features for example

https://rowe.rs/improvements-morning-monitoring/

https://rowe.rs/reviewing-your-week/

I find they've very progressive already started to work with nk on their GPS sped coach analysis so I suspect will be quick to also support the empower oarlock when it arrives, and probably other companies products when they also hit the market

[mightyquinn]

I haven't used any of these products yet but am familiar with using a powermeter from cycling and have done a medium amount of research into how the data can be used. I have to say, so far, that all the offerings in rowing so far are falling down in the area of logging, display, and data analysis- which is one of the most powerful tools a powermeter can offer. I gather from the NK site that there hope is to offer this eventually but the current download system- the "Link" software- is so bare bones as to be almost embarrassing in context to what's out there. I do think the ability to provide direct feedback to crew athletes through an individual display has a tremendous amount to offer for immediate feedback, both technical and physical, but it's only unlocking a fraction of what's out there.

Software such as WKO by TrainingPeaks can completely change the way you train, analyze volume and intensity, program workouts, and the like. What you're seeing in cycling (especially professional cycling, where there's a significant amount of money at play) is that powermeters have almost completely eclipsed the use of lactate, heart rate, or any other training methodology. I know some national team programs are already using TrainingPeaks with HR data, but power can take it to an entirely different level.... "

"... For an idea of what I'm talking about in terms of training metrics, read through this: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/ma ... g-tsb.html

Sam

According to NK's site, you can export session data in .fit file format which can be imported into Training Peaks, Strava, Sporttracks, etc., so you should be able to track Training Load with supported software. That would be a big selling point for me. I think watts-based Training Load calcs are better than HR-based given the variability of HR readings from session to session.

[samtaylor]

That's a big step in the right direction, and probably adequate for the individual sculler. What's needed now is the crew functionality, and I think the product could stall a bit until both real-time and post-practice crew data can be viewed and analyzed.

Thanks, stelph, fro the link to the rowe.rs site. I hadn't explored that in the last couple years, and the functionality is much improved since their launch. Not sure it's enough to justify the cost for our team, but at least worth exploring a bit more. They may be the best candidate for early adoption of web based crew analytics...

Anyway- some exciting stuff, and I think there's going to be a lot of changes in this space over the next 2-3 years.
Sam

[beagle]

I haven't used any of these products yet but am familiar with using a powermeter from cycling and have done a medium amount of research into how the data can be used. I have to say, so far, that all the offerings in rowing so far are falling down in the area of logging, display, and data analysis- which is one of the most powerful tools a powermeter can offer. I gather from the NK site that there hope is to offer this eventually but the current download system- the "Link" software- is so bare bones as to be almost embarrassing in context to what's out there. I do think the ability to provide direct feedback to crew athletes through an individual display has a tremendous amount to offer for immediate feedback, both technical and physical, but it's only unlocking a fraction of what's out there.

Software such as WKO by TrainingPeaks can completely change the way you train, analyze volume and intensity, program workouts, and the like. What you're seeing in cycling (especially professional cycling, where there's a significant amount of money at play) is that powermeters have almost completely eclipsed the use of lactate, heart rate, or any other training methodology. I know some national team programs are already using TrainingPeaks with HR data, but power can take it to an entirely different level.... "

"... For an idea of what I'm talking about in terms of training metrics, read through this: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/ma ... g-tsb.html

Sam

According to NK's site, you can export session data in .fit file format which can be imported into Training Peaks, Strava, Sporttracks, etc., so you should be able to track Training Load with supported software. That would be a big selling point for me. I think watts-based Training Load calcs are better than HR-based given the variability of HR readings from session to session.

both have their place, depending on the training session objective, and neither is best for all training sessions

[Stelph]

I haven't used any of these products yet but am familiar with using a powermeter from cycling and have done a medium amount of research into how the data can be used. I have to say, so far, that all the offerings in rowing so far are falling down in the area of logging, display, and data analysis- which is one of the most powerful tools a powermeter can offer. I gather from the NK site that there hope is to offer this eventually but the current download system- the "Link" software- is so bare bones as to be almost embarrassing in context to what's out there. I do think the ability to provide direct feedback to crew athletes through an individual display has a tremendous amount to offer for immediate feedback, both technical and physical, but it's only unlocking a fraction of what's out there.

Software such as WKO by TrainingPeaks can completely change the way you train, analyze volume and intensity, program workouts, and the like. What you're seeing in cycling (especially professional cycling, where there's a significant amount of money at play) is that powermeters have almost completely eclipsed the use of lactate, heart rate, or any other training methodology. I know some national team programs are already using TrainingPeaks with HR data, but power can take it to an entirely different level.... "

"... For an idea of what I'm talking about in terms of training metrics, read through this: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2015/12/ma ... g-tsb.html

Sam

According to NK's site, you can export session data in .fit file format which can be imported into Training Peaks, Strava, Sporttracks, etc., so you should be able to track Training Load with supported software. That would be a big selling point for me. I think watts-based Training Load calcs are better than HR-based given the variability of HR readings from session to session.

One issue with using training peaks, strava etc and relying on their training loads - my understanding is that the sites were originally set up with running/cycling in mind so relying on their software to calculate taking loads and using their references would be a little off for rowing - hence why personally I'm keeping an eye on Rowe.rs as it's built from the ground up to support rowing - in a similar way sportlyzer is another training peaks competitor who was set up with rowing in mind as well and so understands rowing with the data displayed correctly (rate, 500m splits) and allows you to organise crews/clubs within the system as well

[Bob]

Regarding Stelph's comment about the smartOar Coaches tablet, the price has come down
significantly over the past year. While still expensive, it features a costly sunlight readable display.
Having spent hours in the development of this product with a coat draped over my head and
my supposedly sunlight viewable laptop, I can attest to the value of an easily readable display
in direct sunlight. When you consider that it also shows 8 oars in real-time along with a boat
acccelerometer for check and roll, it isn't that bad a value.

Best,

Bob Martin
smartOar

[eeoyre]

Regarding Stelph's comment about the smartOar Coaches tablet, the price has come down
significantly over the past year.

We'll have to take your word for that, since the current pricing link on your site returns a 404 - Not Found.

[rowsandall]

That's a big step in the right direction, and probably adequate for the individual sculler. What's needed now is the crew functionality, and I think the product could stall a bit until both real-time and post-practice crew data can be viewed and analyzed.

Thanks, stelph, fro the link to the rowe.rs site. I hadn't explored that in the last couple years, and the functionality is much improved since their launch. Not sure it's enough to justify the cost for our team, but at least worth exploring a bit more. They may be the best candidate for early adoption of web based crew analytics...

Anyway- some exciting stuff, and I think there's going to be a lot of changes in this space over the next 2-3 years.
Sam

For those who are reading this now, I think that since August 2016, in addition to rowe.rs, my site rowsandall.com offers a good way to analyze Empower (and other) rowing data.

https://rowsandall.com (the App)
http://analytics.rowsandall.com/ and https://www.facebook.com/groups/rowsand ... =bookmarks (Analytics blog and Facebook page)

The basic version is free to try out and allows you to do your post training analysis. Analysing the Empower Oarlock data is part of the Pro version (which is not expensive, just 15 EURO per year).