Rojabo, do it, you'll love it and get faster

[limegreenspeed]

Glad to hear you will be sticking with it, Quinn. At the time you wrote your last update I was going away somewhere without internet so I wasn't able to respond.

Anyways, I'm very excited to get back on it again and see where I can get, and your results are encouraging.

Periodized it certainly is and it can be characterized as polarized but with qualifications, as it's not steady state based on either lactate, heart rate or percentage of 2k watts - it's certainly not the low and slow that is used in say Germany and forms the basis of their mileage. However, it is polarized in the sense that workout types are not equally distributed in the training program, i.e. you do more work in the intensity category D than category B, and so on.

[mightyquinn]

Glad to hear you will be sticking with it, Quinn. At the time you wrote your last update I was going away somewhere without internet so I wasn't able to respond.

Anyways, I'm very excited to get back on it again and see where I can get, and your results are encouraging.

Periodized it certainly is and it can be characterized as polarized but with qualifications, as it's not steady state based on either lactate, heart rate or percentage of 2k watts - it's certainly not the low and slow that is used in say Germany and forms the basis of their mileage. However, it is polarized in the sense that workout types are not equally distributed in the training program, i.e. you do more work in the intensity category D than category B, and so on.

Thanks limegreen. So far, so good.

[mightyquinn]

I'd be interested to hear any further updates on how the plan has gone for those who are on it? Did you stick with it, or switch back?

Currently quite interested in the rojabo program as I have read good things about it, although it think like many who look at it the majority of my training to date has involved a lot more of a polarised training plan with high mileage of 18spm UT2 and shorter, sharper sessions so from what I have read this is a little bit of a departure from that comfort zone. That being said I can't argue with the results the Danes have been getting, or the results people on this thread are getting!

I'm sticking with it. I have not done another 2K test, but the program requires you to repeat the diagnostic tests once a month and it uses the tests to estimate your current potential 2K score. I have found that the predictions are pretty accurate, and my predicted score keeps improving. In on the water training and limited 1x racing this season, I have been happy with my preparation and performance. I think that I am way ahead of where I was at this time last year. Rojabo does mix in race pace work, but it's dominated by 20-24spm work at specified wattage or speed. There is nothing below 20spm. Overall, I would characterize it as polarized and periodized. The program seems to do a very good job of peaking and tapering the workload in relation to scheduled races or tests.

Checking back in on this thread for an end-of-season follow-up. In short, I think Rojabo helped a lot with Crash-B and summer sprint season. However, over the course of the summer and into the Fall head race season, I think the emphasis on higher intensity may have been detrimental for me. Compared with last year, I ended up doing a lot more work at "threshold" or above and much less at UT2/UT1. By early Fall, I had begun to feel stale, and I under-performed in head races relative to last year despite similar overall training volume and being in good health. Lessons learned (again): 1) train smarter, not necessarily harder; 2) train slow to be able race fast.

[Stelph]

Interesting to see your thoughts on this, currently I'm following Rojabo exclusively also having started it in September after racing the summer season up to July and then resting in August, and so far I've not seen too much to suggest following the plan has affected my winter "head racing" pace with me being able to do just as well, if not better, at my local head races, medallinf at the HOCR, equalling my 5k PB and also smashing my PB 30 min rate 20 by almost 1.5 seconds per split, and that's considering I had set that PB last year

So I haven't got any concerns so far that it's not setting me up with a good core aerobic base, although having done my first 2k and having not been able to do anything that impressive yet it was inline with their predicted score (and currently the program is building me up to scullers head in Dec so I think it's probably getting me to a good head race fitness before I switch to preparing for the summer 2k's, least that's what I hope

I have heard some people say the same as you, and obviously there isn't a plan that fits all, but in curious to know how many sessions you set in the programme? I have it set for 12 sessions a week and that seems to tone down a lot of the "intense" sessions people talk about and add a lot more active recovery sessions or Ut2

[lt.wolf]

You are going to need a break from it at some point. A month or two to just work your base is going to be needed to recharge and relax.

[mightyquinn]

My schedule does not allow more than 1 session per day, so I was scheduling 7/week and did not miss too many. I started the program in mid-February and saw significant improvement for 2K and 1K distances in April, May and June. Rojabo's initial diagnostic tests predicted a 2K time for me which I thought was unrealistic, but I ended up was able to achieving it in about 6 weeks. I also had some decent speed in limited summer masters sprint racing. I was starting from a very solid base of lots of SS miles, and the Rojabo seemed to be very effective at transitioning me to race-readiness. I also found that the program was very effective in designing tapers leading into key test or race dates. However, by August, my performance on the Rojabo Endurance Test was starting to slip, and my predicted 2K scores were moving in the wrong direction. Head racing performance, including HOCR, as a step backwards from 2013. Recent lactate test suggests that the wattage I can hold on the erg without exceeding 2mmol has also slipped. I'll do more testing to confirm.

There could be any number of explanations, but it's possible that the distribution of intensity just didn't work for me when sustained over more than 6 months; either too much threshold or not enough UT2/UT1. As mentioned previously, there was a lot of 20-24spm, all of which would be >2mmol wattage or pace for me. I record all my workouts on my Garmin watch and upload to SportTracks software; one of the SportTracks features is that you can review the number of hours logged, and % of hours logged, at different HR zones. Comparing 2014 to 2013, the upward shift in intensity is clearly pronounced in the HR data.

Over the winter, I'm going to refocus on SS and try to mix in a fair amount of cross training, including as much xcross country skiing as the weather will permit.

Thanks for the interest and contributions to this discussion. It's great to be able to share ideas and compare notes about training.

[limegreenspeed]

Interesting to hear from both of you. Quinn, it may well be that more SS is the way to go. It's never nice to see things slip, so it makes sense you'll make your way back to build up a strong base.

I got about a week into the program (after a summer of working where I couldn't train) only to break my foot, that was September 5th, I'm without crutches now but have to walk in an aircast. It was really disappointing, I was looking forward to seeing how fit I could get from September to April. In the past I've gone from untrained and unfit to 6:25 by April on just SS with some infrequent hard 500m/1000m sessions. Ah well.

[lt.wolf]

I would say you can use the program for 2-3 months before getting a bit fried or tired. You have to do a good job of monitoring yourself daily and how many races you do over the course of a few months. I would give myself a daily numerical number from 1-5 ( 5 being rested and feeling good) on how I felt and possibly adjust my workout on that.

Currently I am in winter mode, only doing SS, (erg/rowing) lifting and stairs. One 30 min piece a week at 26-28. I would say this past year was not my best racing wise, great work wise and personally. The important thing is to focus ahead and learn from year. I already have my racing schedule for next year down on paper with erg goals as well. Having it down in front of me gives me a sense of this is real and it is time to work.

Next year at this time hopefully I will be relaxing with a beer in hand after a successful Silver Skiff

[p-fitz]

Thanks to the previous posters for sharing their experiences with Rojabo.

I decided to give it a try and am now 2 weeks into the plan. It has been challenging. My efficiency test predicted a maximal 2k score that is about 10 seconds off my PR (set just a couple years ago). In fact, Rojabo currently predicts that my "actual" 2k score is exactly equal to my "potential" 2k score, so I obviously did something wrong with the efficiency and/or endurance tests (either that or I've hit my prime and it's all downhill from here). I'm inclined to think I went too easy on the efficiency test, but I'm having a hell of a time holding the rates/pressures as it is, even on the easy "D" workouts. Much harder and it would be impossible for me to complete the workouts as prescribed.

I've currently got the plan set up for 6 sessions a week to allow for lifting as well. My Rojabo Score is 708, for whatever that is worth. I was able to make it almost to the end of the stroke rate 32 step on the endurance test. I specified CRASH-B's on 3/1/15 as my target goal. Although it is still early and I haven't done any testing recently, I do feel like this program will improve my times (although it is somewhat troubling that Rojabo itself predicts that my improvement will be flat over the next several months, I assume as the result of what Rojabo thinks is an insufficient number of training sessions). I'm just not sure I'll be able to maintain this type of intensity for 4 months. I've gotten stale doing the steady state thing for the past few years and was disappointed with my fall results, so I want to shake things up.

It is definitely a huge help to read about other people's experiences with Rojabo. It would be great to hear from anyone who has additional insight or suggestions.

[limegreenspeed]

Interesting.

So you did the efficiency test and then using the target splits you did the endurance test all the way to stroke rate 32 but you have a hard time holding the splits at 20/22spm? That seems odd indeed. All I would say is that if the splits at 20/22 are difficult, how is it you held on to that same power per stroke all the way to 32spm? In the instructions they describe the pace for 22/24/26 on the power stroke as the same pace you'd be able to hold for 5/5/5 at those rates.

[mightyquinn]

Thanks to the previous posters for sharing their experiences with Rojabo.

I decided to give it a try and am now 2 weeks into the plan. It has been challenging. My efficiency test predicted a maximal 2k score that is about 10 seconds off my PR (set just a couple years ago). In fact, Rojabo currently predicts that my "actual" 2k score is exactly equal to my "potential" 2k score, so I obviously did something wrong with the efficiency and/or endurance tests (either that or I've hit my prime and it's all downhill from here). I'm inclined to think I went too easy on the efficiency test, but I'm having a hell of a time holding the rates/pressures as it is, even on the easy "D" workouts. Much harder and it would be impossible for me to complete the workouts as prescribed.

I've currently got the plan set up for 6 sessions a week to allow for lifting as well. My Rojabo Score is 708, for whatever that is worth. I was able to make it almost to the end of the stroke rate 32 step on the endurance test. I specified CRASH-B's on 3/1/15 as my target goal. Although it is still early and I haven't done any testing recently, I do feel like this program will improve my times (although it is somewhat troubling that Rojabo itself predicts that my improvement will be flat over the next several months, I assume as the result of what Rojabo thinks is an insufficient number of training sessions). I'm just not sure I'll be able to maintain this type of intensity for 4 months. I've gotten stale doing the steady state thing for the past few years and was disappointed with my fall results, so I want to shake things up.

It is definitely a huge help to read about other people's experiences with Rojabo. It would be great to hear from anyone who has additional insight or suggestions.

p-fitz,

your experience with both the initial testing and the early workouts is very similar to mine from February. Actual and potential 2K were the same number, but both were faster than I could have pulled when I started. I think it's just a reflection that you're already trained and fit. I expect a less fit subject wouldn't make it to 32spm on the endurance test. BTW, that endurance test is a bear. Retesting once a month or so is no fun. I also found that the early weeks on the program were very tough. The program was never easy, but after the first few weeks, I don't remember failing on many workouts or thinking I wouldn't make it though the week. The workload difference between a low week and high week is pretty significant. If you doubt your power efficiency test, here are two ways to double-check it. Try it again, but program 10 1:00 intervals with 0:00 rest; then row the intervals @ 18,18,20,20,22,22,24,26,28,30. Check the results against your earlier test. I find that doing 2 minutes at the lower ratings helps avoid getting a skewed result. Another option is to check rojabo's pace chart against the Wolverine Plan. The underlying math should be the same. If I were doing Crash-Bs again, I would probably use Rojabo, but I don't think I'd start earlier than 10 weeks out.

[p-fitz]

Lime: yes, I did follow the step test instructions carefully and was able to make it to end of 32. It does seem weird that I'm struggling at the lower ratings. Initially, I thought it was because I row on sliders, and I find low rating stuff difficult on sliders. But of course I also took the efficiency test on sliders, so everything should be relative (although I suppose sliders could skew the potential max 2k score, depending on how Rojabo calculates that score). I guess I'm just not used to pulling the prescribed pressures at the prescribed low rates. I always want to be about 2 beats higher for each split in order to feel comfortable, if that makes sense (and I want to stay away from setting the fan heavier in order to compensate). It's a different way of rowing at a 20-22 than what I'm accustomed to- my heart rate is always about 10 beats higher at each rating than what I've done in the past. Honestly, maybe I just haven't been working hard enough in the past.

Quinn: it's good to hear that you can relate to my experience, and thanks for the suggestions. I will check out the Wolverine rates- that's a good idea. Rojabo predicted a potential max 2k score for me that I could achieve fairly easily today, let alone 3 months from now. In fact, I played with the numbers a bit and discovered that if I had stuck it out for just another minute or two in the endurance test, my actual max would have been faster than my predicted max! Obviously that's not right. All indicators point to me not working hard enough during the efficiency test.

I guess my biggest gripe about Rojabo is that the subjectivity of the efficiency test. The whole training plan depends on it, and it is so easy to get wrong. Lime, what does it really mean to hold a certain pressure for "5/5/5?" That the pressure at 22/24/26 should be equal to the pressure you can hold at each of those ratings for 5 minutes consecutively, but no slower/faster? So that at the end of 15 minutes of rowing at 22/24/26 you're totally spent? I'll keep tinkering and report back. The plan feels appropriate right now, despite the fact that Rojabo thinks my 2k will suck/does suck.

[limegreenspeed]

I think Danish rowing workouts are generally very hard because they're so much short than standard SS programs. From what I've heard from the Canadian lightweights who rowed under Bent Jensen, you should aim to kill yourself every workout - if you're doing this program on the national team. I know that's not feasible for most people, but I think that's generally the nature of the program. So, that's a longer answer to the 5/5/5 question - I'd say you should be pretty spent but not totally spent, not 2k spent but it should be hard.

Something I know is that drag should be set at 110 unless you're a bigger male with a good bit of strength. Also, this program, or at least the Danish program for the elite Danes, is meant to teach athletes how to really spin the erg. That's why they race at 38/39, and do 2k tests at 34/35. Remember to breath lots, I found that helped me a lot when I was able to do it last year, most workouts I would double breaths per stroke.

I wouldn't take too much away from your potential 2k time. I think last year mine only got to 6:35 or something even though in the past I've gone much faster.

Sorry, I'd like to be able to help more.

[mightyquinn]

...
I guess my biggest gripe about Rojabo is that the subjectivity of the efficiency test. The whole training plan depends on it, and it is so easy to get wrong

P-Fitz, if you have a good estimate of your current 2k time and, importantly, your average rating for the test, you can fudge the efficiency test with pace chart calculations. If you want, PM me your numbers, and I'll give you a pace chart and the formula.

Also, the rojabo guys will answer your questions via email.

[track_bites]

I thought I would add my experiences to the others on this thread. I was using a pretty standard training plan with 3 steady state sessions a week and 3 more intense sessions of intervals and head race length pieces a week, and I was getting a bit sick of it. When I read about some of the Rojabo experiences here, I decided to give it a go.

Keep in mind that I am mediocre masters rower (6:40 erg, middle of the pack at events like the Textile) so my experiences are probably very different from higher performance rowers.

Like others, I went too hard on the power test and totally failed at my first endurance test. So I redid it and ended up with a power guide that was a lot more reasonable. I lasted to about a minute into the r28 part of the endurance test. This was back in the middle of August. Since then, I have been adapting the workouts to use OTW instead of on the erg, with only a few erg sessions when the weather was bad or my schedule didn't cooperate.

Using some guesswork, I came up with reasonable OTW pace targets. I essentially used the same profile in terms of how much faster each rate should be versus the r20 rate.

Here's my power guide for erg and water:


Also like others, I found the workouts to be really hard. I setup for 6 sessions a week, and typically got 4 "D" workouts, 1 "C" workout and 1 "B" or "A" workout. I was just about always successful with the "D" workouts and the "B" and "A" workouts. The "C" workouts were the ones that really killed me. I probably had a 50/50 success rate. I wore a HR monitor throughout and collected the data. From that data, I was at or above Lactate Threshold in just about every workout. My ending HR was generally well above 90% of my HR Max. Over time, I found that I was doing better and getting faster in the workouts and I think the plan was effective for a couple of months, but I was feeling more and more worn out. I also dreaded taking the follow up endurance test so much that I kept putting it off. It is truly an unpleasant way to measure fitness.

I'm done with it for now and going back to my old polarized training plan to rebuild my aerobic base. A recent 6K test on the erg was 5% slower than a 6K in January of last year when I was heavy into 2.0mmol sessions. I think I've lost about 10 watts from my 2.0mmol/l pace over the past 2 months, but my lactate tolerance and pain tolerance are much higher.

It was an interesting experiment and I might do another 2 months on the plan in the future if I feel like I need a change. My take aways are:
- It's better to go a bit too easy on the power test than too hard
- I suspect that the plan is more manageable if you are willing to do 2 sessions a day versus 1
- I don't think this is a plan that you can really maintain constantly for more than 4 to 6 months