IRAs will lose National Championship status

[ieatergsforbreakfast]

Not talking about a huge pot of gold. Just a format and production that is cool, decent to watch, and pays for itself. This event should easily be clearing $1 million in total revenue (not profit).

LMAO please show your math.

Yeah, i am not seeing a $1,000,000 regatta here....

If entry fees for the 8+'s are $1,000 a piece that is only $91,000
If every bought entered was $1,000, that is only $145,000
(this is more than 2x entry fees of, say, Dad Vail)

were there 20,000+ spectators a day? (that would about cover off a million in revenue if we include parking...)

I cannot believe the Americas Cup & Hydrow ads on the feed did much more than cover the costs of production.

even if we go with all events are $1k, that gets us to $145k. Basically the math would be that ticketed entry + advertising/sponsorship would net another $850k in revenue.

I'm familiar with another very niche, very expensive sport (three day eventing -> a form of equestrian sport), and I cannot, for the life of me, formulate how to get that kind of revenue. That would be, say 8 sponsors/advertisers at $100k each + another $50k in entry/parking. I can't imagine there are many endemic companies that have annual marketing budgets in the six figures, let alone enough cash to drop $100k in one event.

[Slim]

I’m lost. What’s wrong with the IRA? Absent an NCAA championship why would we replace it?

[gamestop]

Absent any better option even. Yes, plenty of reminders out there for the IRA to modernize, capitalize, or die. But who would even propose an alternative, and to what benefit?

This reminds me that there is an IRCA, though no idea how active/effective it is. They have a championship committee, and a promotion and preservation committee.

[fullmetal]

I’m lost. What’s wrong with the IRA? Absent an NCAA championship why would we replace it?

Without prejudice, this forum has listed many gripes about the IRA:
1. Does not serve the interests of the US National Team; fails to produce enough elite sweep/scull rowing oarsmen to win medals at worlds/Olys. (Combined gripes about allowing boatloads of foreign elite talent + few boat classes contested)
2. Broadcasting seems about 5-10 years behind the times. Other regattas outperform here.
3. Continues to exclude high-performing club programs as varsity programs continue to be shut down -- is the club exclusion actually effective? (Could be; who would be in the massacre of de-sponsorship if the IRA were open to clubs?)
4. IRA board of stewards control the regatta and policy. They're all administrators (!!) with the exception of Wyatt Allen, the coaches' chair on the board. (How are administrators motivated to make changes to regatta format/operations?)

I probably missed some points. I also don't necessarily agree or disagree with these...the IRA is over a century old and has changed to serve the long-term needs of collegiate rowing as they see it. Have we seen a lot of meaningful change since 2011 when the governance shifted away from the five stewards model? If not, maybe the governance model is ineffective at enabling change...or maybe the majority of the IRA programs don't see a need for change.

[gamestop]

The IRCA formed two years ago with a stated mission to address at least your 1st and 4th point, along with DEI and covid responses. They are the ones who could drive change, but something tells me they wouldn't stray that dramatically from status quo.

[Slim]

I don’t know, the IRA seems pretty responsive to changes put forth by the coaches. The stuff they don’t do well really comes down to a lack of funding.

[FullSend]

I don’t know, the IRA seems pretty responsive to changes put forth by the coaches. The stuff they don’t do well really comes down to a lack of funding.

I don't know if that's altogether a good thing. Other sports are run by bodies that are looking out for what produces the best product. Football is always making rules for more offense, Belichick and Saban don't like it but it helps promote the sport. I would argue the HRR Stewards are as much if not more concerned with producing the best event overall, not just what coaches want the best. I think this forum is probably a little biased to the coaches perspective

[str8four]

I don’t know, the IRA seems pretty responsive to changes put forth by the coaches. The stuff they don’t do well really comes down to a lack of funding.

I don't know if that's altogether a good thing. Other sports are run by bodies that are looking out for what produces the best product./quote]

I am with FullSend on this one. Men's rowing listens too much to the coaches, and since they can rarely agree, the only "progress" we end up with is the lowest hanging fruit on the tree (get rid of freshmen rowing and cut the clubs). I would ask the coaches (and old timers on this board) the following question: Which IRA Regattas were better, the six from '03 - '08 (after Harvard and Yale started attending but before the freshmen rule changed and clubs got booted), or the last 6 full regattas ('15 - '19 + '22)?

At the '03 - '08 IRAs:
- 4 different schools won the V8 (Harvard, Cal, UW, and Wisco) with an additional 3 schools getting medals (Princeton, Brown, and Stanford)
- A total of 14 different schools made the IRA Grand (7 above plus NE, Cornell, Navy, Yale, BU, Dartmouth, and Columbia).
- There were full Petite Finals for the Lightweight 8 and a club team (Delaware) made the grand ('03).
- The club V8 from Minnesota (who was 7th at Dad Vails) took home a bronze medal in the 2V8 event.

At the "15 - "19 + '22 IRAs:
- 3 different schools won the V8 (Yale, Cal, and UW) with an additional 3 schools getting medals (Princeton, Brown, and Harvard)
- A total of just 8 different schools made the IRA Grand (6 above plus NE and Syracuse) and for 3 years in a row ('16 - '18) the Grand was the same 6 crews
- There were 2or 3-team Petite Finals for the lightweight 8
- The biggest upset or surprise on the heavyweight side was probably the bronze medal by Dartmouth in the 2V8 event this year.

Personally I think progress is made through competition and not rent-seeking. The rule changes have pushed everyone towards international recruits, stacked the deck to benefit the best funded programs, and eroded the development of American collegiate rowers. In 2022 could anyone imagine that the Petite Final winner at Dad Vails would be faster than all of the 2V8's in this country except the top 2? That happen in 2004, but in 2022 Yale's 4V was faster than Drexel's 1V that won Vails.

The '08 rule changes enacted by the coaches have resulted in talent being concentrated in a smaller number of schools and left under-developed in many others. Bring back the freshmen rule and enforce it so that there aren't 22 yo Euro ringers sitting in some boats. Allow clubs back into all races. Add back the Open 4 and a couple of sculling events to spread opportunity for high-level racing and medals to different programs. Some of the coaches might not like these ideas but they are generally not the advocates of progress.

[rowing]

And still the NCAA HAS NO INTEREST IN EVER SPONSORING MEN'S ROWING.

They wouldn't even want you if you paid them. It will never happen.

Move on and grow yourselves. Get rid of the 3V+ events and bring in more programs. Have a club event, have a Div I-AA race. Make a Henley hierarchy in the various cups and eligibility rules. Cross pollinate on land. Share water. Let coaches mingle.

You're dead f-cking useless otherwise.

[Norm]

Club events sounds ok, but ACRAs are a great regatta in which the club programs are prominent instead of playing 2nd fiddle to the funded programs.

[rowing]

Club events sounds ok, but ACRAs are a great regatta in which the club programs are prominent instead of playing 2nd fiddle to the funded programs.

ACRA ate up Dad Vail.

IRA could eat up ACRA.

There is men's collegiate rowing happening at many levels. Who is capturing the lion's share and optimizing the return on their investment?

Why settle for 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% ? Don't stop until you have it all.

[crewu]

And still the NCAA HAS NO INTEREST IN EVER SPONSORING MEN'S ROWING.

They wouldn't even want you if you paid them. It will never happen.

Move on and grow yourselves. Get rid of the 3V+ events and bring in more programs. Have a club event, have a Div I-AA race. Make a Henley hierarchy in the various cups and eligibility rules. Cross pollinate on land. Share water. Let coaches mingle.

You're dead f-cking useless otherwise.

You are on the way but you stopped too soon.

Invite the Division I women's programs as well. They will still race for their NCAA championship elsewhere but this will be the truly prestigious event for the sport of rowing.

[rowing]

And still the NCAA HAS NO INTEREST IN EVER SPONSORING MEN'S ROWING.

They wouldn't even want you if you paid them. It will never happen.

Move on and grow yourselves. Get rid of the 3V+ events and bring in more programs. Have a club event, have a Div I-AA race. Make a Henley hierarchy in the various cups and eligibility rules. Cross pollinate on land. Share water. Let coaches mingle.

You're dead f-cking useless otherwise.

You are on the way but you stopped too soon.

Invite the Division I women's programs as well. They will still race for their NCAA championship elsewhere but this will be the truly prestigious event for the sport of rowing.

That is probably not an option. They are restricted from post season competition activity except by specific petition (Henley) immediately after NCAA selections are made. I can't see the NCAA giving permission for anything domestic the weekend of or after their own season ending championship.

Again, you're thinking the NCAA wants any part of IRA.

"Hey, Jenny Slater, Hey Jenny Slater. Hey Jenny Slater!"

Dude, you're not gonna get any validation.

One point worth remembering....Title IX blew up because Yale men's rowing couldn't recognize their privilege in 1976.

21 years later, the NCAA Women's Rowing Championship stole the spotlight.

You're never getting it back.

They are content to watch you slowly suffocate. Not one of them feels sorry in the slightest. In fact, they're rather amused the IRA cut off its own nose and made the event lesser than what it was.

Pure comedy gold.

[crewu]

Not really thinking the NCAA wants anything to do with the IRA. But I do think if you polish it up enough the coaches and rowers at the individual programs will. Scheduling is a true challenge though.

[rowing]

The NCAA fully governed programs won't have any options for domestic event competition after the NCAA selections are announced. Seasons end there for those not selected. It's part of the incentive. One show in town, no alternatives.

There was a complaint a few years ago when Tulsa raced the IRA lightweight women's events, without having a declared separate lightweight program, and using athletes who had been on the regular D1 roster all season long.

The bottom line is there is nothing to polish for sale, because the market is closed. And the NCAA is screening her calls, so negotiations are a dead end.

Relax......this is EXACTLY the future the IRA aimed for. Bullseye!