Fluid vs Filippi

[southernrower]

Hudson turning solution- take hacksaw, saw off part of fin reducing profile, file "sawn" part smooth as baby's behind, plop boat in water and turn that sucker like it has never turned b4.

Fill vs FD- Quality of construction is so much better for the Fill. FD just is not there in terms of fit and finish.

[mightyquinn]

Sykes is another great option in a similar price range http://www.sykesna.com/. Excellent build quality and they have some well-established fast hulls. They also have molds for a variety of sculler weights. Not as popular here as they are Down Under, but you do see them from time to time. The US rep, Tom Gallagher in Philly, is great, and they offer some attractive financing and trial programs http://sykesna.com/options.htm. I took delivery of an M20LH http://sykesna.com/m20.htm this Spring and I am very happy with it. Raced against another Sykes owner last month, whose boat, despite being an '08 and having seen lots of miles, looked as new as mine. They also have some lightly used boats for sale http://sykesna.com/Inventory.pdf

[1xsculler]

I understand southernrower's feeling about build construction between Filippi and Fluid. Certainly nearly every other elite 1x is of a more complex and probably much more expensive construction than a Fluid but I kind of look at the Fluid as an exercise in simplicity in materials, design and construction. I love'm all, including my current Fluid and my soon to arrive Pocock, but each boat is very different and not at all necessarily better or faster, just different. As simple as they are Fluids hold up extremely well, are quite easy to touch up cosmetically and they hold their resale value as well as any other 1x.

[Grover]

i agree about sykes and they are really good boats however in bumpy water i find they are very hard to deal with where as fill's, pachers and some others handle them much better. And frm my own personal experience i have very rarely raced in flat conditions.

If i was just looking for a boat to paddle around that was good quality then i would not have a problem with them i just find them very hard to row in bumpy water

[bayrower]

I have owned a Sykes and a fluid, and rowed a Hudson.

Sykes - rough water a problem? Thing is built incredibly well with lots of nice touches. I entered it in a couple ocean bay races to fine results. Got hammered by huge wakes in the cut on fleet week in Seattle and was great.

Fluid - feels flimsier but I have no problems. Very high quality and support in my mind. Love it. just different maybe better form of construction.

Hudson - anyone can go fast in these.

Filipii - buddy has one very look great too

The fins as mentioned determine tracking. The Boston folks will tell you how they cut down their empachers skegs to for the Charles

1xsculler is right? All the boats are great. Think which hull fits you best, rigger you want, resale and track bite!

[mightyquinn]

I'll assume "bayrower" is more of an authority than I on rough water, but I'll second him in saying that my sykes does just fine in rough conditions (or in any conditions for that matter). Regarding running straight sprints versus winding head races, Tom Gallagher at Sykes NA suggested that the stock sykes fin in my M20 might make it too easy to turn and mentioned he could supply a larger fin if I found that it turns too much for sprints. I find that it goes nice and straight for sprint racing. Haven't head-raced in it yet, but it handles the turns fine on the lake where I practice.

[Grover]

in regards to sykes

I agree they are really nice boats but i am wondering if they are so great how come on the international scene the top southern rowers never use them more then on the very rare occasion and then that is prob not a "stock boat"

It is the same with fluids, GB have taken them up but still don't see many top level hwts using them and very few lwts at the world champs (apart from the GB occasional entrant)

is their a reasoning?

I am just curious??

[bayrower]

I used to ask all the same questions.

However, I finally realized that anyone who has to ask about the differences amongst the top 5 or 6 brands on these boards probably isn't good enough to tell the differences among thrm - myself included as just an ok sculler.

Boat hull size and fit most important. Then resale.

That's merely my view. Though I do have favorites but I adjust pretty quickly when it is rigged right. But if the hull size is wrong , then it never feels right to me.

[Grover]

There are many knowledgeable individuals, athletes, coaches, builders and the such on these boards. it is a wealth of knowledge at ones disposal.

Asking for opinions is a great way to find out.

Sykes are really nice boats but i merely wonder why you don't see them much internationally. shipping an empacher from germany to the USA prob won't take that much different amount of time then shipping a sykes from Aus.

I find i am able to jump into most singles and after a km or 2 i normally have it running relatively level (as long as it is set up well) but running level and running fast are two different things

I am just wondering

[bayrower]

A lot has to do with the exchange rate
The Aussie dollar was cheap years ago, now not
The euro was cheap then expensive now moderate
Canadian dollar was 0.75 then over 1

And empachers were always desirable because they had prestige and quick resale not from what I have seen that
They were inherently faster. And you could borrow them at intl regattas

[platypus]

There are many knowledgeable individuals, athletes, coaches, builders and the such on these boards. it is a wealth of knowledge at ones disposal.

Asking for opinions is a great way to find out.

Sykes are really nice boats but i merely wonder why you don't see them much internationally. shipping an empacher from germany to the USA prob won't take that much different amount of time then shipping a sykes from Aus.

I find i am able to jump into most singles and after a km or 2 i normally have it running relatively level (as long as it is set up well) but running level and running fast are two different things

I am just wondering

Many years a go the Aussie crews use to ship their Sykes boats(which are still widely used here in Oz) to international regattas but then management changed the way they do things. It was more convenient to use European boats as most of their international racing was done in Europe. Certainly not because they thought European hulls were faster.

My Fluid doesn't go any quicker than any of the Sykes boats that I've rowed in. Don't forget that Sykes make basically two different hull types. A very deep skinny narrow hull called the "Ultimate" which some of the less skilled rowers may find hard to handle in rough cross wind conditions. However these boats can accommodate very long legs with the deepest pits out of all the others mentioned in this thread.

Then they have their Euro style hulls that are more shallow and wider but more stable and far easier to row, provided you don't have abnormally long lower legs.

However all of their boats are very durable and competitive on the international stage.

[1xsculler]

Please don't anybody take this as a negative comment about Fluids. I currently row a Fluid and in the past seven years I've owned three other Fluids along with just about every other top elite 1x. Gord and John Pauls have been ridiculously good to me, i.e. way over the top good. I love Fluids as do many, many much better scullers then me. I might even order a new Fluid with the new cockpit which is a really good improvement.
However, the one thing that is a little bewildering to me is the full acceptance of the fact that the hull side-walls of Fluids are quite flexible. Flexible enough that I expect there is flex in the side-walls of the hull during the stroke especially at racing speed. EVERY other elite 1x has rigid hull side-walls. I would think the side-wall flex in a Fluid hull would cost speed. NE comments?
From my un-scientific testing a Fluid is every bit as stiff, longitudinally, as the other top elite 1x boats.

[LITIgator]

There are many knowledgeable individuals, athletes, coaches, builders and the such on these boards. it is a wealth of knowledge at ones disposal.

Asking for opinions is a great way to find out.

Sykes are really nice boats but i merely wonder why you don't see them much internationally. shipping an empacher from germany to the USA prob won't take that much different amount of time then shipping a sykes from Aus.

I find i am able to jump into most singles and after a km or 2 i normally have it running relatively level (as long as it is set up well) but running level and running fast are two different things

I am just wondering

Many years a go the Aussie crews use to ship their Sykes boats(which are still widely used here in Oz) to international regattas but then management changed the way they do things. It was more convenient to use European boats as most of their international racing was done in Europe. Certainly not because they thought European hulls were faster.

My Fluid doesn't go any quicker than any of the Sykes boats that I've rowed in. Don't forget that Sykes make basically two different hull types. A very deep skinny narrow hull called the "Ultimate" which some of the less skilled rowers may find hard to handle in rough cross wind conditions. However these boats can accommodate very long legs with the deepest pits out of all the others mentioned in this thread.

Then they have their Euro style hulls that are more shallow and wider but more stable and far easier to row, provided you don't have abnormally long lower legs.

However all of their boats are very durable and competitive on the international stage.

If your fluid goes no faster, why not stay with the sykes?

[powerfulcurve]

Can anyone else comment on Hudson? Steering issues aside, I am very intent on purchasing the 1.21 as a male lightweight. I feel the service that Hudson could provide would be much more reliable. With Hudson selling for $8500 it is hard to say no. It is a big purchase that I really do not want to make unless I am totally set on a particular boat.

[Steven M-M]

East coast, west coast, or no coast (where I live), Alex provides excellent service to us Filippi rowers. The only issue would be major hull damage when you would need a good regional repair shop. Does Hudson do repair work?