2012 USA Men's 8

[scullerjonny]

I read the rules differently for this FQR. They state "......must participate in that event if they participate at the Olympic Games". Can't USRowing replace some of the rowers and those replaced will simply not participate at the Olympics? They also read that they may participate in another boat that qualified, in 2000 couldn't Teti have rowed Wherly in the 8 and also the 4. Seems that would have been within the rules.

Just wondering. I would like to hear an answer from someone more official.

I have to say, read that way, yes it does seem that you could change someone and NOT take them at all. That would avoid the "Ringers in the boat" scenario.

It certainly used to be the case that only a Medical Reason could see the boat changed. This seems to have changed.

The US Selection procedures won't allow a change unless its for medical reasons or violation of code of conduct. Read "removal of athletes" on page 10 here: http://www.usrowing.org/Libraries/Natio ... .sflb.ashx

US Rowing is a bit lawsuit adverse, so you won't see any changes.

[completeIgnorance]

Oh, i see, it is a US rule. Now I understand. So the Olympics are fine with it, just not our system. Are other countries the same?

[crewu]

Nothing in the Usrowing selection policy binds Teti to these athletes and they can be changed.

Technically, nobody other than winners of trial events or NSR winners who earned spots at the world cup and small boats are officially members of the USA rowing team until June 22.

Teti recommended his crew to the HPC on April 30 but this is technically only a recommendation under the rules. It is not an official announcement. Only the HPC can do that.

In the USRowing press release announcing athletes earning the right to race at the Olympics they hedge themselves by saying "pending Final approval by the United States Olympic Committee."

Changing this eight sounds mighty unsavory but Teti has the nuts to do it if he thinks it is necessary.

[fatsculler]

The IOC rules will not allow any changes to the 8 except due to injury. At the FOQR it is the athletes as well as the boat that qualifies. The crew that raced the 8 at Lucerne have to race at London as the "mandatory" event. An athlete who did not qualify the boat at the FOQR cannot race in that boat at the Olympics. Teti CANNOT make changes to the personnel in the eight, end of story.

[crewu]

Fats, that is not what the IOC rules say. Completeignorance found it. Read Qualification Pathway at the bottom of page 1 of the IOC/FISA qualifying rules: http://www.worldrowing.com/uploads/pdfs ... g_-_EN.pdf

The rules simply say if the individual rowers from the USA men's eight that qualified in Lucerne want to participate in the Olympic Games then they must compete in the men's eight event as one of their events. If any members of the Lucerne eight do not compete in the 8 in London then those particular rowers cannot compete at all.

Here's a really sad consequence out of all this. If Teti cuts two of the current rowers from the eight those two rowers ARE NOW INELIGIBLE TO TRIAL FOR THE PAIR!

[KitD]

Fats, that is not what the IOC rules say. Completeignorance found it. Read Qualification Pathway at the bottom of page 1 of the IOC/FISA qualifying rules: http://www.worldrowing.com/uploads/pdfs ... g_-_EN.pdf

The rules simply say if the individual rowers from the USA men's eight that qualified in Lucerne want to participate in the Olympic Games then they must compete in the men's eight event as one of their events. If any members of the Lucerne eight do not compete in the 8 in London then those particular rowers cannot compete at all.

Here's a really sad tid bit out of all this. If Teti cuts two of the current rowers from the eight those two rowers ARE NOW INELIGIBLE TO TRIAL FOR THE PAIR!

What completeignorance found were the FISA rules here:
http://www.worldrowing.com/uploads/pdfs/2011-08_-_London_2012_-_Qualification_System_-_Rowing_-_EN.pdf

I don't know if there are separate IOC rules (can't find them after a brief search), but it would be a bit pointless if FISA rules didn't comply.

The FISA rules make no mention of injury wrt Olympic qualification. There is a FISA rule about medical-only substitutions before the 1st heat at World Champs or World Cup. However, it would be fair to assume that
1. NGBs would enter their strongest crews at the FOQR
2. Athletes wouldn't willingly withdraw themselves from their entire national Olympic team except in the case of injury.

It's fair to assume that the US 8 will be as seen in Lucerne. Other than for injury or misbehaviour, would (could even?) Teti really drop someone out of the team altogether?

[crewu]

would (could even?) Teti really drop someone out of the team altogether?

Yes.

He has already stated in print he is likely to do so.

[scullerjonny]

would (could even?) Teti really drop someone out of the team altogether?

Yes.

He has already stated in print he is likely to do so.

NO. He stated in print that he is likely to adjust the LINEUP (moving someone up or back in the boat)

NOT PERSONEL.

Big difference.

CrewU. Have you read the selection procedures? The crew was officially nominated per US Rowing back in April prior to the qualification regatta. This was the Naming date. The pending confirmation has to do with security processing and stuff like confirmation of citizenship.

[crewu]

Lineup can mean personel or position change.

The USRowing press release did not state that the athletes in the eight for Lucerne would be in the eight for London if they won.

The USRowing selection procedures do not state that the crew selected to race in the Lucerne qualifier will be the crew for the Olympics. The procedures state that the eight would be selected for the Olympic Games from a camp process with members qualifying for that camp via the speed orders and invitation. The coach would then make a recommendation (a word that is not legally binding) based on camp results by April 30 to the HPC.

The HPC is still able to select a different eight if the coach asks them to.

[crewu]

The pending confirmation has to do with security processing and stuff like confirmation of citizenship.

Also not quite the full story. The 4- is not officially selected until June 22.

[tpj]

Well, we at least know that none of the guys from the eight can race in the four (without also racing in the eight). Seems to make changing things a bit more complicated if you are talking about potentially removing a guy from the eight (and out of the Olympics) and then moving the 13th guy in the four - even if the rules allowed for it.

[LoreMaster1]

You people are morons. TETI IS NOT CHANGING THE EIGHT. END OF STORY.

[crewu]

Dude, chill out. Throwing names at people just makes you look pathetically weak.

Only Teti knows what he will do. He has stated he anticipates a lineup change. That could be limited to seat movement. It might possibly mean more. We are discussing what the rules allow him to do.

[LoreMaster1]

would (could even?) Teti really drop someone out of the team altogether?

Yes.

He has already stated in print he is likely to do so.

That isn't discussing the rules. That is saying what Teti will do. (Sure, you used the word "likely", but there's not much room for interpretation of your tone.)

If I have overreacted, you have my apologies. But since the name Paul Teti was first mentioned, this entire conversation has tasted less of a discussion of the rules and more of an attack on Mike. The man just qualified the boat for the Olympics, and all this just seems blatantly unfair.

[crewu]

That was me saying he "could" drop an oarsman from the eight (based on the rules) and my interpretation of his statement of "lineup change" includes the possibility of athlete replacement. I have been nothing but praiseworthy of Teti and believe he will deliver the first international senior medal for the USA men since...Teti.